[MOD] Cleaned SoundClips

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King of Worms
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Re: [MOD] Cleaned SoundClips

Post by King of Worms » Sun May 05, 2019 9:29 am

Is there some huge obstacle preventing us from implementing basic EAX? To add echo to the indoors, esp dungeons? And to make the sound more sofisticated?

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Re: [MOD] Cleaned SoundClips

Post by King of Worms » Sun May 05, 2019 10:54 am

Btw Pango, would it be possible to create a DFMOD package from your sounds and offer it as a default sound mod for the Dream please?
As always, there would be Dream Team Credits entry with Your name and description of what you created plus the link to the actual mod page.
And the DFMOD would have your name in the author section and Contact info of your choice.

It would be so cool to have Dream expanded this way. I contacted ByteMixer with a same question about the music. And Rhymer with the same question about his Cinematics.

So we would have official Sound, Music and Cinematics sections in the Dream mod. Fingers crossed :)

Plus on technical side, DFMOD allows us to have better control of what is happening. More options!
In the sound section, it is "load in background" to remove the load from the main thread, which might be beneficial?
Than some Load Type options I need to learn about, Decompress on load/ Compress in memory/Streaming

And it appears the size will be reduced as well while keeping the sound quality intact.

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Re: [MOD] Cleaned SoundClips

Post by pango » Sun May 05, 2019 8:03 pm

King of Worms wrote:
Sun May 05, 2019 9:29 am
Is there some huge obstacle preventing us from implementing basic EAX? To add echo to the indoors, esp dungeons? And to make the sound more sofisticated?
I could be wrong, but I think effects like reverb need informations like room sizes and wall materials sound properties...
And I don't think the dungeons provide such informations, only walls and objects, but most likely no concept of rooms or corridors...
When a measure becomes a target, it ceases to be a good measure.
-- Charles Goodhart

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Re: [MOD] Cleaned SoundClips

Post by King of Worms » Sun May 05, 2019 8:18 pm

I was thinking about something basic at least. Like.. when you enter the dungeon, the simple echo will start. I think the game can know, when you are inside the dungeon. Same with lets say main castles (but they might be considered as dungeons by the game, so it would be solved by the 1st step anyway)

Outside, no echo is ok.

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Re: [MOD] Cleaned SoundClips

Post by King of Worms » Fri May 10, 2019 11:29 am

Ok so Ive been playing with the sounds some more.
Ive added a reverb to those which are played only in the dungeons, or those which benefited from this effect.
I created a smoother fade out, and enhances sounds like wind howling etc.
On some sounds, this approach was not suitable, so I left them as they are.

Question:
Those sounds starting with a "arena" - are they played in DFU?
I listened to them and I dont think so.

Ive changed the infamous crickets for a 12 second clip of... crickets (attribution 3.0) - But its has more layers to it and loops great, sounds deffo more natural than the original

I plan to try to play with the footsteps some more.

PS: I can send the updated package to you if you want. Either as loose files or a DFMOD, depends on you

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Re: [MOD] Cleaned SoundClips

Post by pango » Fri May 10, 2019 1:29 pm

I don't think "Arena" sounds are used, at least most of them aren't.
They're very loud and simplistic compared to Daggerfall ones, so i'm not even sure they can be used for anything.

Better crickets loop sounds like a good idea, specially given how many people complain about default one being too repetitive. Denoising them was good, but probably not sufficient.

About adding effects to sounds, I don't know, I only see that as a stopgap measure.
It's almost certain you'll get inconsistencies that way (one monster that sounds echo-y, the other right next to it that doesn't,...) Just now I was chased by a zombie in the wilderness, and every few steps he was doing sliding stones noises, that made no sense outdoors. Beware.
So let's be careful about adding effects. I'd much prefer realtime effects added by the game engine.
And if/when it gets implemented, the sounds without any sound effect will come handy.
(example: doppler effect couldn't be added nicely to arrows sound... because it already contained a doppler effect!)

I'm interested in the new sounds, but I think we should start another mod with those.
"Cleaned Soundclips" was 99% denoising and otherwise restoring the original sound effects (the only exception in 1.3 was the rain sound loop), and some people may prefer to stick with that. Maybe improved crickets loop could fit if it doesn't sound too different, but that's it.
Either that, or start a 2.0 release that goes beyond restoration.
When a measure becomes a target, it ceases to be a good measure.
-- Charles Goodhart

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Re: [MOD] Cleaned SoundClips

Post by King of Worms » Fri May 10, 2019 3:21 pm

Well about the effects, I was very careful and never adjusted sounds which might be played inside and outside, so all MOB sounds are ofc untouched.
I added reverb to things like water drops, underwater sounds, distant bird sound, some ambients etc as Im well aware about the problems you spoke about.

Yes, it would be cool to have the efects be done in engine, but thats a sound of future - hopefully.
And indeed, lets keep the original sounds as well, if the EAX becomes a thing.

Crickets... well, the rain sound is also new and it fits. These are carefully picked. It sounds really good, and is not loud.

Agreed this will be better to build on and not mix with the cleaned clips. So If I can use those as a base, I would be glad.
I want to change the bat sound so it doesnt have the same sound as a Rat.. etc..

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Re: [MOD] Cleaned SoundClips

Post by pango » Fri May 10, 2019 4:02 pm

King of Worms wrote:
Fri May 10, 2019 3:21 pm
Crickets... well, the rain sound is also new and it fits. These are carefully picked. It sounds really good, and is not loud.
New rain loop fits... Because I made it so ;)
I picked some sound that resembled the original, not rain falling on very hard ground, not recorded below some roof, etc.
I made a nice loop out of it (by cutting the beginning and the end at two zero crossings), longer than the original, and without significant "events" that would help notice the loop, like the original had near the end.
Then I used the equalizer to adjust the distribution of frequencies to better match the timbre of the original sound.
Rain is almost white sound, so once the timbre is right, you're pretty much done :)
When a measure becomes a target, it ceases to be a good measure.
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Re: [MOD] Cleaned SoundClips

Post by Azteca » Sun May 12, 2019 1:21 am

pango wrote:
Sat May 04, 2019 11:44 pm
Nothing from me, at least.
Azteca said he would be working on more sounds this summer, it will probably require code changes to benefit from more sounds, will see...
Well, the university where I work is entering the summer. Time-sensitive work slows down and I have a bit more time do things for fun (despite a small baby and house search...why are all of us on this forum in the midst of so many life transitions!).
I've had Pango's cleaned soundclips sitting on my drive for a while and I'd skimmed them before. Today I listened to more and started browsing Freesound, downloading and bookmarking sounds. This will go beyond Pango's mission of presenting the best version of vanilla. I will create a thread when I make some progress and it's worth sharing.
My current thoughts are:
  • find higher quality replacements for the most common "real" sounds - doors, footsteps, nature sounds. This will be somewhat boring but 1) these are some of the most frequently heard sounds in-game and 2) there are many quality sounds available. This should provide a lot of immediate benefit without the need for too much creativity.
  • find or create enemy sounds. My initial browsing of Freesound shows promise. Many of Daggerfall's enemy barks and attacks are animal sounds or humans acting spooky, just pitch-shifted downward, occasionally with reverb. Some enemies like the Spriggan have a combination of a pitch-shifted dog or human sound with a tree branch/foliage sound, or the orc sergeant growling with footsteps. This is too specific to just find out in the wild, so I'll have to mix it together myself.
The sheer number and complexity of sounds means I'm going to start a spreadsheet as I review sounds. For the enemies, I will write what combination of sounds I hear. I will track what sounds I settle on and their Freesound links and license info (especially those that ask for attribution). There are also oddities like Halt and Halt2 being the same sound, bat and rat having the same sounds, etc.
Even with the Arena sounds removed, you're looking at ~330 sounds. I honestly doubt I will get anywhere near replacing them all, but I do seriously want to do enough to warrant a release, get some feedback from you guys and hopefully generate some enthusiasm or find out if I am on the right track. I'm open to collaboration but I know there is an awful lot of subjectivity involved in this particular task.
Anyhow, I hope I haven't hijacked your thread, but this is sort of the catch-all SFX thread for the time being!

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Re: [MOD] Cleaned SoundClips

Post by pango » Sun May 12, 2019 2:14 am

No, that was fine, thanks for the update! :)
When a measure becomes a target, it ceases to be a good measure.
-- Charles Goodhart

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