[MOD] Climates & Calories

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L57
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Location: Moscow, Russia

Re: [MOD]Climates & Cloaks

Post by L57 »

So I tried the latest version of C&C.

Needs to wear boots now, which is good! PC feels comfortable if I wear default short shirt open and sweating if I button it up via 'use' button. However, he's still sweating if wears open tunic — I guess it's because tunic has long sleeve. He's also absoultely comfortable being bare-naked.

I have few considerations. It's up to you ofc, but probably you will find these ideas useful (if you have not considered it yourself yet)

I would suggest considering how Breton NPCs and Redguard NPCs look as a kind of reference point. Breton and Redguard PC should feel comfortable while dressed like these NPCs in game in their respective climate zones, more or less. And then it's easier to adjust other races accordingly.

Currently Nord still feels too 'overheated' to me. He doesn't care about being bare-naked, while probably he should be a bit uncomfortable. Probably he would be perfectly OK with long sleeves (at least if shirt is open) in the afternoon. And need to button up the shirt at evening — such balance would be perfect, in my opinion. Now it's already too hot for him.

I suppose Breton would behave almost like this too, but feeling the need for double shirts more often (like those variants with green vests over white shirt, if it possible to check by mod?), needs to tuck a shirt in the pants and wear light hoods. Which would be consistent with how Breton citizen NPCs look in the game, apparently. More or less. :)

And another reference point is how Redguads/Dark Elves NPCs dress in deserts: enjoying light shirts (or even no dress) during day, while northerners, I presume, need robes and cloaks (against the Sun).

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Ralzar
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Re: [MOD]Climates & Cloaks

Post by Ralzar »

Hm, thanks for the feedback. What month and climate is your Nord in when you experience this?

L57
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Re: [MOD]Climates & Cloaks

Post by L57 »

Ralzar wrote: Wed Jan 22, 2020 5:14 pm Hm, thanks for the feedback. What month and climate is your Nord in when you experience this?
5th of Morning Star. This is the same character from the save I uploaded earlier, beginning of the game.. I guess it's kind of January, and it's intended to be the coldest time. Your pdf assumes the same. I'm afraid if the Nord feels that warm even at this time, he is going to burn to the death in summer :D

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Ralzar
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Re: [MOD]Climates & Cloaks

Post by Ralzar »

L57 wrote: Wed Jan 22, 2020 5:34 pm
Ralzar wrote: Wed Jan 22, 2020 5:14 pm Hm, thanks for the feedback. What month and climate is your Nord in when you experience this?
5th of Morning Star. This is the same character from the save I uploaded earlier, beginning of the game.. I guess it's kind of January, and it's intended to be the coldest time. Your pdf assumes the same. I'm afraid if the Nord feels that warm even at this time, he is going to burn to the death in summer :D
I'll have to check the save again to be sure, but looking at the code, this is what happens:

It's pretty cold. Not super cold, because you're not in any of the cold climates and its day.
The race warmth of Nords makes it a little warmer. But still pretty cold.
Frost Resistance moves the temperature a huge chunk towards neutral temperature.
Then you put clothes on that pushes you over on the hot side.

So this will mostly not affect how fast you overheat. It's just that your nord consider everything not in the mountains to be a comfertable temperature. And then you make him put on clothes :D
But notice that the Frost resistance will not come into effect if the temperature is actually hot.

I think I'll take a look at this though. I see several things in the mod that could be done better.

L57
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Re: [MOD]Climates & Cloaks

Post by L57 »

Ralzar wrote: Wed Jan 22, 2020 6:09 pm I'll have to check the save again to be sure, but looking at the code, this is what happens:

It's pretty cold. Not super cold, because you're not in any of the cold climates and its day.
The race warmth of Nords makes it a little warmer. But still pretty cold.
Frost Resistance moves the temperature a huge chunk towards neutral temperature.
Then you put clothes on that pushes you over on the hot side.
Indeed, I'm apparently a bit biased myself - and do not take into account some important factors.

Now, on a second thought, I see it's most likely implied that Daggerfall region has pretty soft climate (like in France or kind of), while I tend to think uninentionally about (much) harsher winters like those in Russia.

I will test it a bit in different regions later and different in-game months. Have to try different characters as well (gonna try Breton and Redguard), to get it more objective.

I hope I'm not too annoying with over-analysing this, just want to help make the mod as perfectly balanced and reasonable as possible. :D
But notice that the Frost resistance will not come into effect if the temperature is actually hot.
So he will need some proper clothes to feel OK during the summer in DF region, for example? The only thing that I'm really afraid regarding this issue is that there could be no alternative to feel comfortable other than running nude in some seasons/regions. Which is immersive-breaking a bit, obviously :lol: (excluding extremely hot deserts for some races and such, of course).

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Ralzar
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Re: [MOD]Climates & Cloaks

Post by Ralzar »

L57 wrote: Wed Jan 22, 2020 6:21 pm I hope I'm not too annoying with over-analysing this, just want to help make the mod as perfectly balanced and reasonable as possible. :D
Far from it. With such a small userbase as DFU has it's hard to get some usefull feedback,
L57 wrote: Wed Jan 22, 2020 6:21 pm So he will need some proper clothes to feel OK during the summer in DF region, for example? The only thing that I'm really afraid regarding this issue is that there could be no alternative to feel comfortable other than running nude in some seasons/regions. Which is immersive-breaking a bit, obviously :lol: (excluding extremely hot deserts for some races and such, of course).
The nord race is a bit special in this mod because they have Frost resistance. Which noe other characters will have unless the class grants it.
The mod works on a range:
above 10 = Hot
below -10 = Cold
10 to -10 = Comfertable

Fire resistance pushes positive numbers towards 0.
Frost resistance pushes negative numbers toward 0.

So nords will hit between -10 and 0 pretty easily when it's cold. Unless it's extremely cold. They then have 10 points to go on before they hit the point where they are starting to get hot.

L57
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Re: [MOD]Climates & Cloaks

Post by L57 »

Thank you for clarifing, now I understand this. I have jumped to conclusions too soon, did not expect resistances have such drastic effect.

Now it looks rather cool, you have to think about your character's race, weighing the pros and cons more than before.

Does it mean that Dark Elves symmetrically resistant to heat? Or they don't have fire resistance in Daggerfall yet?

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Ralzar
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Re: [MOD]Climates & Cloaks

Post by Ralzar »

L57 wrote: Wed Jan 22, 2020 7:14 pm Does it mean that Dark Elves symmetrically resistant to heat? Or they don't have fire resistance in Daggerfall yet?
Nope. The race stuff in Daggerfall is generally really weak. I gave them and redguards an natural cooling. So they can handle more heat but less cold. Oh and they and redguards do not get sunburned as easily.
I dream of one day being able to just mod the whole character creation method.

L57
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Re: [MOD]Climates & Cloaks

Post by L57 »

Another thought came to me... What do you think about special 'weather' conditions in some dungeons?

Quick reminder that DF classifies dungeons by type: https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Daggerfall:Dun ... geon_Types

I imagine simple script that returns 1 if PC is inside some dungeon, for example in Volcanic Caves, and then mod adds relatively high temperature there. Not sure if it possible to develop this idea somewhere further though, other dungeon types feel too ordinary to add any interesting conditions. But if could definitely add some spice for some exotic dungeons.

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Ralzar
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Re: [MOD]Climates & Cloaks

Post by Ralzar »

Hm, I absolutely agree with the sentiment. Unleveled Mobs allready does a lot with making dungeon monster spawns make sense for dungeon types.

But it's a real shame that there is no visual indicators based on dungeon types. Man, it would be great if there were diffrent tile sets for the diffrent dungeon types instead of them all appearing to be the same dungeon.

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