Kab's Unleveled Spells

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yabay
Posts: 149
Joined: Wed Aug 14, 2019 11:32 am
Location: Russia

Re: Kab's Unleveled Spells

Post by yabay »

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Last edited by yabay on Wed Sep 01, 2021 1:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Kab the Bird Ranger
Posts: 123
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Re: Kab's Unleveled Spells

Post by Kab the Bird Ranger »

@yabay
It's true that I didn't consider that making spells easier to use in dungeons does also make them easier to "abuse" in taverns. Normally, I would prefer to fix how xp is gained rather than go back to the classic way of making most spells too hard to use until you're already too strong.

Unfortunately, XP is not moddable right now, and won't be until DFU 1.0. It is on my plans to add modding support there.

So I'll have to acknowledge but ultimately live with the easier "inn abuse" right now. It's deliberate enough that players who don't like that can avoid doing it, at least.

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Kab the Bird Ranger
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Re: Kab's Unleveled Spells

Post by Kab the Bird Ranger »

On that note, I do want to avoid having players feel like they get weaker while leveling. In classic, class enemies do get stronger as you level, and with this mod, your spells don't get stronger. You only get around 5 stats, and a hit dice (that's probably small anyway for a mage).

I don't want to touch enemy scaling in this mod, except for spells. If it seems like spellcasting class enemies get much stronger compared to you as you level, I'll have to fix this. For the rest, yeah, you'll have to go with another mod that reduces/removes enemy scaling.

I do plan on having stats matter more for saving throws, which would give you more benefits to leveling, though that might work in the enemy's favor again, since they tend to have higher stats...

yabay
Posts: 149
Joined: Wed Aug 14, 2019 11:32 am
Location: Russia

Re: Kab's Unleveled Spells

Post by yabay »

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Last edited by yabay on Wed Sep 01, 2021 1:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

yabay
Posts: 149
Joined: Wed Aug 14, 2019 11:32 am
Location: Russia

Re: Kab's Unleveled Spells

Post by yabay »

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Last edited by yabay on Wed Sep 01, 2021 1:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.

risk
Posts: 72
Joined: Sun Jul 25, 2021 1:49 pm

Re: Kab's Unleveled Spells

Post by risk »

so with the new spells, do enemy casters actually feel stronger or 'moderate' with this mod?

and how did you think it felt with 'skilled spells'? was it relatively ok, i.e we should feel stronger, or did the enemies seem too powerful?

i only installed 'skilled spells' by the time my character was already advanced - so nothing bothers the character at this stage. i'm looking forward to starting a new game if i ever have the time to re-immerse myself - but not sure if i'll be doing skilled spells, mighty magic, or this mod..

yabay
Posts: 149
Joined: Wed Aug 14, 2019 11:32 am
Location: Russia

Re: Kab's Unleveled Spells

Post by yabay »

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Last edited by yabay on Wed Sep 01, 2021 1:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Kab the Bird Ranger
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Re: Kab's Unleveled Spells

Post by Kab the Bird Ranger »

risk wrote: Sat Aug 21, 2021 2:34 pm so with the new spells, do enemy casters actually feel stronger or 'moderate' with this mod?
For monster enemies (ex: imps, orc shamans, liches, vampires...), since they have a fixed level, I replaced their spells with versions that do the same damage as they do in classic. Status inducing spells have been nerfed overall, so effects like paralysis or silence only last between 11 and 15 seconds rather than 2 minutes or above. I did remove Cure Poison from many enemies, so that's one less useless spells they won't be casting.

For class enemies, it's hard to tell. Their spells are so random in classic, I haven't taken the time check if they were better or worse, really. I gave them the spells I expect a caster of this level to have. Only testing and player feedback will give me an idea of what it looks like right now. They mostly have damaging or healing spells right now, no invisibility or paralysis.
risk wrote: Sat Aug 21, 2021 2:34 pm and how did you think it felt with 'skilled spells'? was it relatively ok, i.e we should feel stronger, or did the enemies seem too powerful?
I think Skilled Spells didn't fix the initial weakness of mages, and only slowed down the scaling problems. It didn't affect enemies at all.
yabay wrote: Sun Aug 22, 2021 12:31 pm The spell "Open" is tied to the character's level. I believe that this is contrary to the spirit of this mod.
Yeah, I noticed that before release. I wasn't sure if I wanted to override the effect since that was outside the scope, but I guess I should now. The Lock spell is also affected.

risk
Posts: 72
Joined: Sun Jul 25, 2021 1:49 pm

Re: Kab's Unleveled Spells

Post by risk »

i might have to start a new character and give this a try to see how it hopefully doesn't scale.
humanoid spellcasters are probably the most annoying part of the game late stage because of the scaling issue - i think most would prefer fighting overpowered lichs / daedras, but being able to beat humanoids relatively easily after a certain point.

sorry if i've missed it - so what does the 'skill level' actually do then in this mod? as we can buy new spells at higher character level.. but it doesn't seem skill has as much an influence.

i like skilled spells for its 'caster level' - but if this mod makes enemies more reasonable i think this is the way to go

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Kab the Bird Ranger
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Re: Kab's Unleveled Spells

Post by Kab the Bird Ranger »

risk wrote: Mon Aug 23, 2021 6:20 am sorry if i've missed it - so what does the 'skill level' actually do then in this mod? as we can buy new spells at higher character level.. but it doesn't seem skill has as much an influence.

i like skilled spells for its 'caster level' - but if this mod makes enemies more reasonable i think this is the way to go
In classic, caster level is equal to character level, and magic skills only decrease spell points costs.
In Skilled Spells, caster level is a mix of character level and magic skills, and magic skills still decrease spell points costs.
In Unleveled Spells, caster level is entirely ignored in spells, and magic skills only decrease spell points costs (considering also making them help you beat saving throws soon).

Since Skilled Spells only changes your caster level, it becomes useless with Unleveled Spells. All you get is a pointless number in your Skills window (which I also found satisfying, I agree).

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