Kab's Unleveled Spells

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risk
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Joined: Sun Jul 25, 2021 1:49 pm

Re: Kab's Unleveled Spells

Post by risk »

halo Kab, i really enjoyed the skilled spells mod - and i think it integrates 'skill percentage' nicely.
what is the main issue you have with that, and made you want to go for unleveled spells?
is it that you want people to make new spells every few levels (kind of like in diablo) rather than the same spell being used for the duration of the character?
i guess you are right that spells in the beginning are not very powerful..
the other thing about using the same spell multiple times vs powerful spells - it changes how many 'uses' and skill leveling - so that is another aspect that is a factor.
also did you try the mighty magic mod?

i'm interested to try it, but seems like a very big change!

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Kab the Bird Ranger
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Re: Kab's Unleveled Spells

Post by Kab the Bird Ranger »

risk wrote: Sat Aug 14, 2021 12:29 pm is it that you want people to make new spells every few levels (kind of like in diablo) rather than the same spell being used for the duration of the character?
I wouldn't say I want this to happen, but for sure it seems like it would be more necessary than in the base game. Then again, the base game had spell effects that were much more abusable with knowledge of the broken spell costs, while with my mod, some spells from the vendor are good enough. For example, I did no spellmaker right outside of Privateer's Hold, while I would always do it in the base game (ex: to get a good Free Action).

I'm hoping eventually that the spell vendor will have most spells you would need in a normal playthrough, reserving the spellmaker for users looking to specialize in a certain spell effect or who want to tweak certain tradeoffs.
risk wrote: Sat Aug 14, 2021 12:29 pm also did you try the mighty magic mod?
Not yet, I have to finish playtesting my own mod first. Still struggling without magic regen, honestly. I'm thinking of potentially shipping something similar as an optional setting, to be honest. Mages seem to rest after every non-trivial fight, while warriors and thieves can usually last a while, if they have reliable healing that is.

risk
Posts: 72
Joined: Sun Jul 25, 2021 1:49 pm

Re: Kab's Unleveled Spells

Post by risk »

i thought the 'basic magic regen' mod was very helpful for making a very slight regeneration even while running away in dungeons.. i just use the lowest setting (1/6, 0.2) - and it averages about 40-50 spell points in an in-game hour. which seems about correct in terms of gameplay and realism.

however i also agree that the 'resting after fighting' thing is kind of a weird dynamic when i come to think of it. i guess there's no real way to break up continuous game and stop the game from feeling too easy other than forced rest (and the feeling of uncertainty when unable to find a safe place to rest).
it's just that i think the 'sleep to gain health' is odd - but then again being completely beat up physically and by the impact of attacking spells thrown at you - doesn't happen in real life either (neither will you get better by resting 8 hours after such a beating). i guess you could imagine it as your combat concentration / stress response - and you need to not be continuously fighting to gain peak alertness so you don't sustain severe injury. that might make more sense (but i am overthinking this haha).

i actually think self-healing with magic is a bit overpowered - and i'm glad there are more available potions (travelling alchemist, alchemy shops selling potions) with new mods.. for non magic playing characters.
at mid levels being able to replenish health and stamina so easily - makes magic characters breeze through dungeons..

maybe you could combine basic magic regen and your mod?

risk
Posts: 72
Joined: Sun Jul 25, 2021 1:49 pm

Re: Kab's Unleveled Spells

Post by risk »

sorry i forgot to mention.. i think your idea of mostly purchasing spells is a move in the correct direction..

spellmaker should be mainly for gimmicky things (create atronach mod etc) - and as you said, trade offs. not creating exploitable spells.
i would actually not mind if there were no spellmaker and just a variety of similar effect spells.
i usually have 3 levels of custom spell anyway - a low casting cost one that scales with level, a normal type of spell, and a high power high cost type spell.
being able to just purchase them and not overthink or try to game it - i think would be much more enjoyable, even if it reduces flexibility to an extent.
but then again this is probably just the feeling i get as someone who played this after school in the 90s, and revisiting as a person who only gets to play a few hours a week in 2021 - and wants to emphasize enjoyment and immersiveness from the game rather than trying to utilize spellmaker exploits :)

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Jay_H
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Re: Kab's Unleveled Spells

Post by Jay_H »

risk wrote: Mon Aug 16, 2021 5:00 am spellmaker should be mainly for gimmicky things (create atronach mod etc) - and as you said, trade offs. not creating exploitable spells.
i would actually not mind if there were no spellmaker and just a variety of similar effect spells.
Imagine if you could only buy spells, and then there were some treasure item in the game that let you upgrade your spells incrementally. You could choose to upgrade Magnitude by a few points, Duration by one, or Chance by 5%-ish :twisted:

risk
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Joined: Sun Jul 25, 2021 1:49 pm

Re: Kab's Unleveled Spells

Post by risk »

i think that would really well Jay_H - could we just use something that is already in-game, i.e the selection of jewellery? would be a nice bonus to be able to use the jade / malachite / turquoise / amber gems - and even holy candles / talisman / religious items - for very small effects.. or what about using holy daggers / holy tomes for moderate upgrades?

yabay
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Re: Kab's Unleveled Spells

Post by yabay »

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Last edited by yabay on Wed Sep 01, 2021 1:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Kab the Bird Ranger
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Re: Kab's Unleveled Spells

Post by Kab the Bird Ranger »

Code: Select all

When equipping a character (with a 100 skill level) with a ring enchanted to enhance the skill, the mana cost of spells does not decrease.
Yeah. In classic, getting a magic skill to 110 would basically reduce to spell cost to 0, making all your spells cost the minimum of 5.

Since I kept the same formula for now, I capped magic skill at 100, making values above it entirely useless.

If I wanted to support values above 100, I'd probably use the same "Scalable" formula I used in my Scalable Speed mod. Both formulas have the same problem, and the same solution would work.

I might consider it if that's a case people really want support for.

yabay
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Location: Russia

Re: Kab's Unleveled Spells

Post by yabay »

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Last edited by yabay on Wed Sep 01, 2021 1:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Jay_H
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Re: Kab's Unleveled Spells

Post by Jay_H »

yabay wrote: Thu Aug 19, 2021 9:23 pmWhat annoys me about Dagger is why do undead and daedra have 100% saving throw versus invisibility while other mobs have 0%? A stupid level 9 skeleton can see, but a level 20+ assassin cannot. It pisses me off. Is it possible to introduce an saving throw against invisibility like in AD&D? Or introduce a special spell for some high-level mobs based on the Detect Enemy effect (like the infamous megabosses from the Osсuro's mod).
Seeing invisible is an inherent trait in each enemy type, so there isn't a saving throw to be made. I guess theoretically someone could mod it in to make it similar to pacification, perhaps. See how skeletal warriors have the flag permanently defined: https://github.com/Interkarma/daggerfal ... cs.cs#L755

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