[MOD] Handpainted model replacement project (Release v1.83c)

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King of Worms
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Re: [MOD] Handpainted model replacement project (Release v1.42b)

Post by King of Worms » Tue Jan 29, 2019 10:09 pm

Do u guys think that if Alexander Sig released the source files, someone would build upon it, maybe correct the issues etc? It might be worth a while to ask him? What if the HDD he has this stored on fails before he has the time to return to the project. Or what if he cant/dont want return at all because life takes him in other direction? All is lost with another DFU update requiring re-compiling of this mod...

Opinions?

We should really open this topic about sharing the mod source files, seriously.


Think... whole DFU is open.
DREAM mod, which is one of the biger mods out there, is completely open now. U download DREAM unity package on a 1st page...

So... time to share? Time to forget our ego/alter ego?
Who is King of Worms, right? I dont care, my mod is for all. Same as Interkarmas DFU is for all...

jedidia
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Re: [MOD] Handpainted model replacement project (Release v1.42b)

Post by jedidia » Wed Jan 30, 2019 8:48 am

Think... whole DFU is open.
It's also published under the MIT license, which means there's no way to force mods to be open-sourced (and even if it was GPLed, there's no way to force accompanying *artwork* to be open sourced as well, that's a whole other can of worms. In essence, for artwork to be redistributable without the authors permission, it must explicitly be given to the public domain). I'm not critisizing the choice of license, by the way. I publish all my stuff under MIT as well. Just mentioning this because in my experience discussions can get... heated as soon as somebody brings up GPL.

On a completely different note, what I do not know is how save the MIT license is for code that was partly reverse-engineered, though... The license allows the source code of DFU to be used in commercial products, but does that really apply when part of the code has been RevEnged from closed source code? But I'm not a lawyer and don't want to be, so as long as nobody with actual stakes in the matter complains I won't either.

It has however to be said that a discussion about open-sourcing mods is a bit moot considering the openness of the license. The best you could do would be to formulate "best practices", but there's no way to enforce them without a license change. Which I wouldn't advocate for, since some modders simply are not comfortable with open-sourcing, for various reasons. Some people are afraid that they will lose creative control over their mod, which in my experience is completely unfounded, some amateurs (in the literal sense, as in not being professional developers) are self-concious about their code and would rather not have other people look at it because they fear critisism, and some just simply don't want to bother with potential administrative overhead in a free-time project. So restricting the license can easily lead to less mods being developed.

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MasonFace
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Re: [MOD] Handpainted model replacement project (Release v1.42b)

Post by MasonFace » Wed Jan 30, 2019 2:36 pm

Opinions?

We should really open this topic about sharing the mod source files, seriously.
I agree with your stance on the matter. At the end of the day, it is up to the individual modders to decide whether they release their source files, but my opinion is that most projects are far too large to be completed by any individual, but can be much more manageable with a team- and in the extreme case, multiple teams who are able to pick up where the previous team left off. We're human. We have limits. We have lives to live. Situations change- why let the project die when others are eager to pick up the torch? This is a community workshop after all- a community whose talent pool is growing weekly with an expanding range of specialties. So why not allow others' specialties help cover your weaknesses? Why not be open? Well, I think jedidia was right in his theory as to why people oppose openness. We will just have to work as a community to foster an environment that encourages openness. If we set a good example early on, I think others will naturally follow suite.

Personally, I intend to release all the source textures and materials for the AI upscaling project as it matures, but only after I've received permission from all the other contributors to the project, and with the understanding that any use of these assets including alterations for use in other mods requires credit of prior work in order to preserve the history of the effort and to give recognition. In my opinion, nothing more is needed than a brief statement to the effect of "Some assets contained in this mod are based on prior work of [mod name] by [mod author(s)]" written somewhere on the mod's 1st page. I believe that as long as people are given credit for their effort, they are generally okay with sharing. But of course it is still their choice whether they share or not.

Al-Khwarizmi
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Re: [MOD] Handpainted model replacement project (Release v1.42b)

Post by Al-Khwarizmi » Wed Jan 30, 2019 5:27 pm

I respect everyone's decision to opensource their mods or not. However, I will not install mods that aren't opensource. I don't want to grow attached to them, to then find that they have stopped working due to some new Unity and DFU version introducing an incompatibility and no one having access to the code to patch it. That would be very frustrating. So I will basically act as if they didn't exist (if I had done the same with e.g. Dagger XL back in the day, it would have saved me from a lot of disillusion from false expectations...)

arkhiel
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Re: [MOD] Handpainted model replacement project (Release v1.42b)

Post by arkhiel » Wed Jan 30, 2019 6:30 pm

Interkarma wrote:
Tue Jan 29, 2019 9:57 pm
There's a primer to the modding system here. The models & flats page of guide has a little more information about flats specifically.

Some trial and error is usually needed at the start, but it's fortunately not too difficult to replace flats with models and package these changes into a mod.

If you get stuck, make a new topic outlining your problems and one of the more experienced modders should be able to help. :)
thanks for the links :) . Not sure I'll get the unity part, but I could at least make useable models in a repository ^^ .
Haven't got much time for it (new daddy of twins :) ), but I'd like at least to replace the trees/vegetation. I'll make a proper topic when I get into it ^^

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King of Worms
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Re: [MOD] Handpainted model replacement project (Release v1.42b)

Post by King of Worms » Wed Jan 30, 2019 7:17 pm

Well, Im not for demanding the source files like jedidia spoke about, but for a voluntary/gratuitous sharing... thats the only way it can work IMO.
I agree 100% with MasonFace.

And yes, only way is to lead and others might follow. So my mod is open now.
Might be fine to have a thread in released mods called Mods Source files or smthng like that. To let ppl know things like this even exist and that they might or might not contribute to that.

Just... let ppl know there is a issue with MODs getting nonfunctional during the time and development and that there is a possibility to make the mod immortal basically.

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Hazelnut
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Re: [MOD] Handpainted model replacement project (Release v1.42b)

Post by Hazelnut » Wed Jan 30, 2019 7:46 pm

arkhiel wrote:
Wed Jan 30, 2019 6:30 pm
Haven't got much time for it (new daddy of twins :) ),
Congratulations man! I wish you lots of energy, you gonna need it. :D

Time dilation effects are caused by kids I swear, I mean how else can I explain the fact my youngest turns 15 in a week? :shock:

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King of Worms
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Re: [MOD] Handpainted model replacement project (Release v1.42b)

Post by King of Worms » Wed Jan 30, 2019 7:59 pm

Oh I missed that twins part, congratulations man!!
I dont have kids yet, but there is one saying which I found very true

You dont sense the time running by inside you, but you see it in your surroundings...

And kids turning from toddlers to a semi/adults is exactly the clock which makes you realize... (right Hazelnut? :D )

Enjoy, be well!!

arkhiel
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Re: [MOD] Handpainted model replacement project (Release v1.42b)

Post by arkhiel » Wed Jan 30, 2019 8:25 pm

Thanks, and yeah they eat our time like crazy ^^ .
Still wanna mod/play but I have to somewhat shrink the time spent on it :lol:

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MasonFace
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Re: [MOD] Handpainted model replacement project (Release v1.42b)

Post by MasonFace » Wed Jan 30, 2019 9:26 pm

@arkhiel:
Congrats on the twins! I'm a recent father too; my baby is now 4 weeks old today. My wife and I are so exhausted and we keep consoling each other with "hey, at least we didn't have twins!" so my sympathy comes along with my congratulations. :lol:
I'd like at least to replace the trees/vegetation.
I think the trees and vegetation is a great place to start, and to my knowledge, no one has spent much time on this as of yet.

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