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Re: [MOD] Post Processing Effects

Posted: Mon Nov 25, 2019 9:03 pm
by mikeprichard
TheLacus wrote:
Mon Nov 25, 2019 7:58 pm
I'll answer both of these questions at the same time. This mod is an implementation of the Post Processing pack developed by Unity. This means that i often have no control over some issues that are reported, because they may be issues with the actual effect or possibly caused by specific version of Unity. I believe is better to consider it as a beta until we reach a stable game release; at that point i think we might even consider including it with the core game, at least main effects like antialising or ambient occlusion...
For the moment post processing effects have a low priority and i can't provide more support other than trying to fix the issues that are reported or add minor improvements. This is also the reason i'm keeping this mod on the forums rather than publishing it on Nexus, which would lead people to have higher expectation.
Thanks for taking the time to respond (and to continue to work on this project) - makes perfect sense! I'd also love to see these features eventually be integrated into base DFU.

Re: [MOD] Post Processing Effects

Posted: Wed Nov 27, 2019 4:21 pm
by DigitalMonk
TheLacus wrote:
Mon Nov 25, 2019 7:58 pm
Hi! I'm happy to allow for more customization of this effect, but i would avoid 1:1 link from mod settings to API settings. What i've been trying to do with other effects is to merge more configuration options, which can be too advanced or obscure for most people, into more handy sliders. I'll see what i can do for auto exposure. :) Documentation for the version used in game (which is not latest one) is available here.
Yay! :D

Thanks for the link to the appropriate docs. Looking those over, my immediate thoughts are:
  • Luminosity Range - Only for the hardcore, I think. Probably safely left alone.
  • Histogram Filtering - likewise, probably safely left alone.
  • Auto Exposure:Minimum (EV) - very useful -- how deep into the dark are our eyes allowed to adjust
  • Auto Exposure:Maximum (EV) - very useful -- how dim to we make bright scenes (if I could only have one slider, it would be this one, because I think this one would let us prevent the "dim muddy outdoor scenes")
  • Key Value - no clue, really. Dynamic seems like a really good idea except for hardcore tweakers.
  • Adaptation Type - it seems heretical to let this be anything other than "Progressive"
  • Speed Up/Down - Useful - would be my vote for next after AutoExposure:Min/Max sliders. Could possibly be a single slider ranging from "slow/realistic" to "fast/convenient". If a single slider, keeping Up=2*Down seems reasonable -- our eyes do adapt to bright scenes faster than dark ones, because "up" is mostly about tightening the pupil, but "down" also requires flushing some chemicals out of the retina.
Thanks!

Re: [MOD] Post Processing Effects

Posted: Sat Nov 30, 2019 11:28 am
by King of Worms
What needs to be done for this to appear in game?
https://docs.unity3d.com/540/Documentat ... hafts.html

Is "Standard Assets Effects package" free?

Re: [MOD] Post Processing Effects

Posted: Sun Dec 15, 2019 2:51 pm
by TheLacus
DigitalMonk wrote:
Wed Nov 27, 2019 4:21 pm
TheLacus wrote:
Mon Nov 25, 2019 7:58 pm
Hi! I'm happy to allow for more customization of this effect, but i would avoid 1:1 link from mod settings to API settings. What i've been trying to do with other effects is to merge more configuration options, which can be too advanced or obscure for most people, into more handy sliders. I'll see what i can do for auto exposure. :) Documentation for the version used in game (which is not latest one) is available here.
Yay! :D

Thanks for the link to the appropriate docs. Looking those over, my immediate thoughts are:
  • Luminosity Range - Only for the hardcore, I think. Probably safely left alone.
  • Histogram Filtering - likewise, probably safely left alone.
  • Auto Exposure:Minimum (EV) - very useful -- how deep into the dark are our eyes allowed to adjust
  • Auto Exposure:Maximum (EV) - very useful -- how dim to we make bright scenes (if I could only have one slider, it would be this one, because I think this one would let us prevent the "dim muddy outdoor scenes")
  • Key Value - no clue, really. Dynamic seems like a really good idea except for hardcore tweakers.
  • Adaptation Type - it seems heretical to let this be anything other than "Progressive"
  • Speed Up/Down - Useful - would be my vote for next after AutoExposure:Min/Max sliders. Could possibly be a single slider ranging from "slow/realistic" to "fast/convenient". If a single slider, keeping Up=2*Down seems reasonable -- our eyes do adapt to bright scenes faster than dark ones, because "up" is mostly about tightening the pupil, but "down" also requires flushing some chemicals out of the retina.
Thanks!
I have bad news, at least for the moment. I made some tests but couldn't get eye adaptation to look any better; right now we are using gamma color space and i think this doesn't leave room for improvements.
These screenshots are made with current settings: as someone said (pango?) it looks like you have sunglasses.

Image
Image

And now with linear color mode, without any other change:

Image
Image

Unless someone more experienced with this has suggestions, a fully functional eye adaptation in gamma mode is unfortunately out of the question.

Re: [MOD] Post Processing Effects

Posted: Sun Dec 15, 2019 3:12 pm
by TheLacus
The good news is that there is a new version with support for in game changes to mod settings. You can use the console command change_modsettings and select Post Processing from the list. It should be much easier to customize and create presets now :)

To summarize the issues that have been reported:
  • Bloom + Enhanced Sky + Distant Terrain causes graphic artifacts.
  • TAA doesn't work anymore? I can't reproduce at the moment.
  • Bloom is too strong? It looks fine to me, please post a screenshot if you experience this issue.
  • Ambient Occlusion causes banding on sprites if "Radius" value is too low. It can be solved with the "High" preset or by manually increasing this value, but it may have a performance cost.
Grain is not supported because i can't think of any purpose in Daggerfall, but i'm open to different opinions. A feature i could add is the ability to enable vignette only when sneaking. Would you consider it useful?

Re: [MOD] Post Processing Effects

Posted: Sun Dec 15, 2019 3:31 pm
by Jeoshua
TAA works for me, it's just... Bad. Which isn't really the fault of this mod, it's TAA to blame.

Visual feedback while sneaking would be awesome, tho. Or what about a desaturation when injured or at night?

Finally, I need linear color in my life!

Re: [MOD] Post Processing Effects

Posted: Sun Dec 15, 2019 5:10 pm
by pango
TheLacus wrote:
Sun Dec 15, 2019 3:12 pm
  • TAA doesn't work anymore? I can't reproduce at the moment.
It works for me, with few issues (rain disappearing, transparent part of billboards that look weird) that must come from limitations of the shader itself.
TheLacus wrote:
Sun Dec 15, 2019 3:12 pm
  • Bloom is too strong? It looks fine to me, please post a screenshot if you experience this issue.
As far as I'm concerned, it's only noticeable with Enhanced Sky's sun, it makes it look gigantic. Disabling sun flare in Enhanced Sky doesn't help, the sun still looks too big (and more circular, so worse looking).
sun_bloom.jpg
sun_bloom.jpg (190.55 KiB) Viewed 494 times
TheLacus wrote:
Sun Dec 15, 2019 3:12 pm
  • Ambient Occlusion causes banding on sprites if "Radius" value is too low. It can be solved with the "High" preset or by manually increasing this value, but it may have a performance cost.
For me, increasing quality factor actually makes banding much worse, and I have to increase the radius to try to mask it. But with any setting above Medium, I can't totally remove banding.
I gave more details on Reddit few months ago.

Re: [MOD] Post Processing Effects

Posted: Sun Dec 15, 2019 9:33 pm
by TheLacus
Thank you both for feedback!
pango wrote:
Sun Dec 15, 2019 5:10 pm
As far as I'm concerned, it's only noticeable with Enhanced Sky's sun, it makes it look gigantic. Disabling sun flare in Enhanced Sky doesn't help, the sun still looks too big (and more circular, so worse looking).
It doesn't make much difference for me, the sun is already big. Is Enhanced Sky supposed to look different?

Re: [MOD] Post Processing Effects

Posted: Sun Dec 15, 2019 9:53 pm
by TheLacus
Version 1.2.1 is available on first post. A special thank you to pango for his tip on ambient occlusion!

Re: [MOD] Post Processing Effects

Posted: Tue Dec 17, 2019 12:17 am
by DigitalMonk
Thanks for the update! Especially the in-game mod tweaking!

I had wondered if gamma was whacked. I've noticed a lot of color gamut and luminosity range issues that are common when gamma is mismatched between designer and viewer (nothing in the 3D world ever seems to quite get to black, I've had rats that are desaturated and brighter than their surroundings, etc). Linear space would be much nicer... Looked it up on Unity site to get a better understanding of what was going on, and one of the first things I saw was (emphasis mine):

"Textures tend to be saved in gamma color space, while Shaders expect linear color space. As such, when Textures are sampled in Shaders, the gamma-based values lead to inaccurate results. To overcome this, you can set Unity to use an RGB sampler to cross over from gamma to linear sampling. This ensures a linear workflow with all inputs and outputs of a Shader in the correct color space, resulting in a correct outcome."

Sounds like maybe this could be patched in one place with the "RGB sampler"? Probably, in a perfect world, every textured resource might need this sampler. But for a quick check, could the Post-Processing module be told to use the sampler? I'm not familiar with using Unity, so I don't know how much of a headache that might be. If it's doable, it would be cool to have a checkbox to turn it on and off (it'll interact with all the artwork, and I know KoW and everybody behind the DREAM team has poured their souls into making those look right with the current system, so I'd hate to disrupt that with no control)
TheLacus wrote:
Sun Dec 15, 2019 3:12 pm
A feature i could add is the ability to enable vignette only when sneaking. Would you consider it useful?
Been playing The Outer Worlds lately, and that's what they do when you're hidden in tall grass. It is a nice visual cue.

I was recently reading the discussion on the "Cracking open combat" thread about sneak, though, and I suspect there could be some complications. DF doesn't internally have a true "sneak" mode, it's just "how fast are you moving" based. So, you could tie this to "user has pressed the 'Sneak' key" and/or tie it to crouching, but that doesn't exactly match to "when sneaking", and I foresee some complaints along the way because of the inevitable mismatch...

Or you could tie it to "moving <= half base rate", but then the vignette would pop up every time you stopped to look around...

On the whole, probably best to leave it as is. If the user is crouched, they've got a different view on the world. If they're pressing the sneak button, they should know that they are.