Daggerfall Unity Quest Pack #1

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dashyr89
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Re: Daggerfall Unity Quest Pack #1

Post by dashyr89 » Sun Nov 10, 2019 3:03 am

Jay_H wrote:
Sun Nov 10, 2019 2:07 am
There are extremes on both sides. I remember once I was running thin on Morrowind content with one install, and the final breaking point for me was stumbling on the stolen pants quest in Gnisis and asking myself, "What's the point of having hundreds of quests if they're this meaningless?" An uninstall swiftly followed.

Quests should always have you do something memorable, no matter the outcome.

Skyrim, uniquely, has interesting premises that are ruined by the game's insipid dialogue and storytelling. No matter how good Skyrim's quests might be or could have been, their presentation is always going to be a failure because the writers simply are not going to pull it off.
A side effect of becoming (I really mean knowing you are.) a near christ-figure (Dragonborn) within the first hour of the game is that it kinda kills the whole main quest from the get go. Where is the big reveal after that? Alduin? We surely never expected to fight dragons right? *Remembers pre-release presentations.* Oh wait. That the writing was bad... I mean. Did TES ever TRUELY have good writing? Sure, all the game had a specific quest or a specific guild that worked... but most of them have the lore going all over the place when it comes to actual quality.

I think the most memorable questline I ever got with a TES game was the Dark Brotherhood in Oblivion. I really loved that one. Not epic by any standards. But, it was well made and the objectives we're original.

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Ralzar
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Re: Daggerfall Unity Quest Pack #1

Post by Ralzar » Sun Nov 10, 2019 9:49 am

dashyr89 wrote:
Sun Nov 10, 2019 1:56 am
Ralzar wrote:
Sat Nov 09, 2019 1:10 pm
I absolutely agree. The game is at its best when everyone treats you like a relatively normal person who performs normal tasks for them. You have an epic journey in the game. It's called The Main Quest. Everything else is what you got distracted by while on the main quest.
Most quests and encounters should be relatively mundane, exactly so that stuff like the Main Quest sticks out. Really high-level quest stuff should mostly be limited to top guild rank quests and a random encounter once in a blue moon.

That said, having the option to play other Main Quests would be an awesome addition.
Sounds like Skyrim.

Everybody got boring fetch quest. Guilds and main quest are the true interest. Unless you mean we need more quest like "Buy me milk" and stuff like that. Wich I'd have to object... I like living like an average joe in a fantasy world.. not like an average joe in the middle ages... otherwise I might go postal in the middle of the process of aquiring milk. Oh wait... im due for my postal 2 fix.

Haha, the last thing I want is for the game to be more like Skyrim. Skyrim felt more like "Oh can you get me that thingy... thanks. As a reward, you're now... ARCHMAGE! Congratulations! You win everything! Gather around everyone, this random guy just got me a thingy, let's all bow down to him!"

And then you get arrested for loitering or something. "But... I'm the archmage...?" Yeah, yeah, tell it to the judge.



What I want to avoid in Daggerfall is that since you constantly get offered quests by random people, it would feel completely absurd if most of them are EPIC QUESTS. Then you get the feling that every barmaid is hiding a long lost magical artifact, every innkeeper has an evil twin brother that's raising an undead army and the fighters guild get 10 orders a week for "Hero to save the world".
With the sheer volume of quests Daggerfall throws at you, and with how mundane most NPCs offering them are, the quests should generally be relatively mundane. They can still be interesting if written so. If the characters involved are engaging. Or it makes you do something you normally wouldn't. Or makes you have to make some hard choices. And Daggerfalls strength isn't really in the writing as much as what happens when a couple of random systems crash into ech other or simply the enjoyment of the dungeon crawling.

Edit: That said, there should be some epic quests only available from nobles if you have high enough rep with them. It's generally silly how easily you can go up to someone at court and just get a sensitive mission involving their families honor :D

dashyr89
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Joined: Tue Nov 05, 2019 5:10 pm

Re: Daggerfall Unity Quest Pack #1

Post by dashyr89 » Sun Nov 10, 2019 1:18 pm

Ralzar wrote:
Sun Nov 10, 2019 9:49 am
dashyr89 wrote:
Sun Nov 10, 2019 1:56 am
Ralzar wrote:
Sat Nov 09, 2019 1:10 pm
I absolutely agree. The game is at its best when everyone treats you like a relatively normal person who performs normal tasks for them. You have an epic journey in the game. It's called The Main Quest. Everything else is what you got distracted by while on the main quest.
Most quests and encounters should be relatively mundane, exactly so that stuff like the Main Quest sticks out. Really high-level quest stuff should mostly be limited to top guild rank quests and a random encounter once in a blue moon.

That said, having the option to play other Main Quests would be an awesome addition.
Sounds like Skyrim.

Everybody got boring fetch quest. Guilds and main quest are the true interest. Unless you mean we need more quest like "Buy me milk" and stuff like that. Wich I'd have to object... I like living like an average joe in a fantasy world.. not like an average joe in the middle ages... otherwise I might go postal in the middle of the process of aquiring milk. Oh wait... im due for my postal 2 fix.

Haha, the last thing I want is for the game to be more like Skyrim. Skyrim felt more like "Oh can you get me that thingy... thanks. As a reward, you're now... ARCHMAGE! Congratulations! You win everything! Gather around everyone, this random guy just got me a thingy, let's all bow down to him!"

And then you get arrested for loitering or something. "But... I'm the archmage...?" Yeah, yeah, tell it to the judge.



What I want to avoid in Daggerfall is that since you constantly get offered quests by random people, it would feel completely absurd if most of them are EPIC QUESTS. Then you get the feling that every barmaid is hiding a long lost magical artifact, every innkeeper has an evil twin brother that's raising an undead army and the fighters guild get 10 orders a week for "Hero to save the world".
With the sheer volume of quests Daggerfall throws at you, and with how mundane most NPCs offering them are, the quests should generally be relatively mundane. They can still be interesting if written so. If the characters involved are engaging. Or it makes you do something you normally wouldn't. Or makes you have to make some hard choices. And Daggerfalls strength isn't really in the writing as much as what happens when a couple of random systems crash into ech other or simply the enjoyment of the dungeon crawling.

Edit: That said, there should be some epic quests only available from nobles if you have high enough rep with them. It's generally silly how easily you can go up to someone at court and just get a sensitive mission involving their families honor :D
I know right. I went up to a noble at the court who offered me the world (in quest). When I spent the last month pillaging his city and spending half of it in prison. But the guy goes "Yeah, totally legit. I can trust this guy!"

Edit: For a cynical guy like me. Having a game where EVERY SINGLE quest would be overblown in epicness could seriously be hilarious. Potential joke mod idea? Make it the Tunaborn... or the Salmonborn... Cabbageborn? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oOt3Xl4H9lo

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Hazelnut
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Re: Daggerfall Unity Quest Pack #1

Post by Hazelnut » Sun Nov 10, 2019 3:26 pm

Noble quests are currently only gated by player level and most are available from level 1. This may be incorrect, and it would be easy enough to change to require a certain rep value but it needs to match classic. Any information from the original game to show what we have is wrong will be helpful.
See my mod code for examples of how to change various aspects of DFU: https://github.com/ajrb/dfunity-mods

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Corsair
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Re: Daggerfall Unity Quest Pack #1

Post by Corsair » Thu Nov 28, 2019 3:29 pm

Jay_H wrote:
Sat Nov 09, 2019 2:22 am
I really think Daggerfall needs more little events. Not everything needs to be a crusade or a heist or a betrayal. Why not show the simple life these peasants carry on?

Zaric Zhakaron got rather upset in a stream that he looked for work and got a contest, but that's the system limitation for now.
I second this, and it's something that's missing in many TES games, tbh - mundane life is glossed over. And mundane, if you're creative enough, can be a quest on it's own. I remember the simple quest in Skyrim, right in the first town, where you can either help the elf or the shop keeper woe a local girl. The outcome doesn't matter, it's just a chance for the player to role-play with their moral compass. Often times you're just sent to kill/fetch X from Y place, then return in X days. A little bit more of these quests, which help make the NPCs less stock, goes a long way to aid in player immersion.

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