Status of stealing in shops and houses?

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BansheeXYZ
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Joined: Fri Oct 23, 2015 8:19 pm

Status of stealing in shops and houses?

Post by BansheeXYZ » Fri Sep 14, 2018 3:06 am

Just wondering about some stuff. In the roadmap, it says stealing is implemented (green). However:

-"STEAL" button in shops doesn't do anything.
-Guards do not come when you steal things from crates, dressers, etc
-You cannot use your weapon to break through locked doors if the doors are external. In classic, you can, and guards always come.
-In classic, half of residential houses are locked and the other half say "this house has nothing of value." In unity, almost every house can be entered during daytime hours.
-In classic, not every piece of storage furniture acts like a loot container. In unity, seemingly every one does.

The "nothing of value" houses going away seems like an improvement. As does the last one. But all the other stuff seems unimplemented.

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Interkarma
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Re: Status of stealing in shops and houses?

Post by Interkarma » Fri Sep 14, 2018 3:33 am

You are correct the first 3x items are unimplemented and final 2x items are intended to be improvements.

I've added some extra detail to roadmap to help clarify. These mostly belong in the 0.8 "Crime & Punishment" feature line, which is still at least a few months away from starting, despite being partially built out ahead of schedule. Main focus is still on 0.5 "Magic & Effects" at present.

R.D.
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Joined: Fri Oct 07, 2016 10:41 am

Re: Status of stealing in shops and houses?

Post by R.D. » Fri Sep 14, 2018 3:13 pm

In classic, half of residential houses are locked ... In unity, almost every house can be entered during daytime hours.
Regarding houses that are locked in classic not being locked in unity, I worked on that but it wasn't clear to me how classic determines whether a house is locked or not, so for the time being they are all or mostly all unlocked during the day.

BansheeXYZ
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Re: Status of stealing in shops and houses?

Post by BansheeXYZ » Sun Sep 16, 2018 8:45 pm

Thanks for updating the roadmap!

Out of curiosity, what do you guys think is the reason that classic had the "no value" houses? Was it a memory issue or were the devs trying to make thieves do more footwork to find loot?

Couple more notes:

1. Vagrancy within buildings is unimplemented.
2. In classic, if I bash a door and surrender to guards, they kill me. I should be arrested for breaking and entering. Bug?
3. If I simply hit a guard rather than kill him, I am arrested for murder. That also seems like a bug in classic. Should be assault.
4. Lastly, and this has been discussed, there is a bug with how classic handles crimes. Guards only remember the last crime committed, not the most severe one. I don't think the devs intended for you to pickpocket a guard before he arrests you for murder... devs tend to forget how craftly and exploitative players can be.

Mod territory for crimes would involve implementing "counts" and allowing players to be arrested for multiple crimes and not just one. More realistic, but not a big deal considering that any crime system is already unrealistic. Murderers would be executed, not pay fines and sit in jail for a few months ;)

R.D.
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Re: Status of stealing in shops and houses?

Post by R.D. » Mon Sep 17, 2018 8:31 am

2. In classic, if I bash a door and surrender to guards, they kill me. I should be arrested for breaking and entering. Bug?
Guards may kill you when you try to surrender if your legal reputation is low. I think that is intended, and we have it in DF Unity. I don't think it's related to door bashing.
3. If I simply hit a guard rather than kill him, I am arrested for murder. That also seems like a bug in classic. Should be assault.
I'm not sure that classic ever uses the "assault" charge, but I agree with you, we should use that. If you killed a civilian and then hit a guard, I assume you were being charged for killing the civilian.
4. Lastly, and this has been discussed, there is a bug with how classic handles crimes. Guards only remember the last crime committed, not the most severe one. I don't think the devs intended for you to pickpocket a guard before he arrests you for murder... devs tend to forget how craftly and exploitative players can be.
Yes, that's known. We should probably fix that. I put that in and since we've got it working the same as classic, I considered it "good enough" for now and moved on to other things.

BansheeXYZ
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Re: Status of stealing in shops and houses?

Post by BansheeXYZ » Tue Sep 18, 2018 10:42 am

R.D. wrote:
Mon Sep 17, 2018 8:31 am
2. In classic, if I bash a door and surrender to guards, they kill me. I should be arrested for breaking and entering. Bug?
Guards may kill you when you try to surrender if your legal reputation is low. I think that is intended, and we have it in DF Unity. I don't think it's related to door bashing.
I've got classic running via dosbox. It's not reputation because if I steal or murder, surrender sends me to court. Bashing a locked door doesn't (although I haven't checked internal doors). I think it's bugged. Not a surprise that something so simple would be bugged in Daggerfall. :) What's surprising is that I never noticed till now because I never broke the law in my prior playthroughs.

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