Crouch - gameplay purpose?

Discuss Daggerfall Unity and Daggerfall Tools for Unity.
User avatar
jayhova
Posts: 594
Joined: Wed Jul 19, 2017 7:54 pm
Contact:

Re: Crouch - gameplay purpose?

Post by jayhova » Sun Jul 21, 2019 2:22 am

People associate crouching with sneaking because in wooded areas brush is rather low to the ground and so you conceal yourself by also being low. In other environments the rules are different. Walking quietly and staying out of the light and near the walls would be much more to your advantage. Crouching would likely not help as there is no low cover.
Remember always 'What would Julian Do?'.
Windows 10 Pro 64 bit. DFU Ver. Alpha 0.10.7

Teralitha
Posts: 260
Joined: Wed Jul 17, 2019 3:44 pm

Re: Crouch - gameplay purpose?

Post by Teralitha » Sun Jul 21, 2019 2:24 am

jayhova wrote:
Sun Jul 21, 2019 2:22 am
People associate crouching with sneaking because in wooded areas brush is rather low to the ground and so you conceal yourself by also being low. In other environments the rules are different. Walking quietly and staying out of the light and near the walls would be much more to your advantage. Crouching would likely not help as there is no low cover.
Of course it wont help IN ALL situations. That immersion/realism though.... Are we really deciding this game feature based on anecdotes?
Last edited by Teralitha on Sun Jul 21, 2019 2:30 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
jayhova
Posts: 594
Joined: Wed Jul 19, 2017 7:54 pm
Contact:

Re: Crouch - gameplay purpose?

Post by jayhova » Sun Jul 21, 2019 2:30 am

The immersion comes from people's impression of how things work. That being said my proposed sneak icon is a bit crouchy but not overly so.
Remember always 'What would Julian Do?'.
Windows 10 Pro 64 bit. DFU Ver. Alpha 0.10.7

Teralitha
Posts: 260
Joined: Wed Jul 17, 2019 3:44 pm

Re: Crouch - gameplay purpose?

Post by Teralitha » Sun Jul 21, 2019 2:32 am

Its crouching of course. What else would a sneak icon look like? LOL

Were you wanting me to move over to that topic?

Teralitha
Posts: 260
Joined: Wed Jul 17, 2019 3:44 pm

Re: Crouch - gameplay purpose?

Post by Teralitha » Sun Jul 21, 2019 2:44 am

If its not too late, I would urge the dev to reconsider the common sense approach as opposed to an anecdotal one.

User avatar
jayhova
Posts: 594
Joined: Wed Jul 19, 2017 7:54 pm
Contact:

Re: Crouch - gameplay purpose?

Post by jayhova » Sun Jul 21, 2019 2:59 am

A low walk is by necessity slow and hence significantly stealthy. I suppose the question is since in a crouch you would be moving slower does that automatically increase your stealth? I would think it should but I'm unsure of how this was treated in the original game. Crouching all the time is tiring. I'm for a mod the would make crouching stealthy if it is not already. Realistically, in a dungeon, just learning to move quietly would be the most important thing and if you wish crouch while doing this knock yourself out. Again, if there is not brush to conceal you, crouching is useless. In short stealth in the original game did not include crouching and this should not be included because there is no reason for it and it is not realistic.

That being said if you are in a room full of crates maybe crouching would be useful.
Remember always 'What would Julian Do?'.
Windows 10 Pro 64 bit. DFU Ver. Alpha 0.10.7

Teralitha
Posts: 260
Joined: Wed Jul 17, 2019 3:44 pm

Re: Crouch - gameplay purpose?

Post by Teralitha » Sun Jul 21, 2019 3:28 am

My argument is for immersion. I feel more sneaky while playing if I am crouching. How bout this... Sneak button(toggle) to begin using sneak skill at half effect with 25% speed reduction. Crouch + sneak to get the full effect with 65% speed reduction (no toggle) That would be more realistic/immersive than the current iteration.

User avatar
jayhova
Posts: 594
Joined: Wed Jul 19, 2017 7:54 pm
Contact:

Re: Crouch - gameplay purpose?

Post by jayhova » Sun Jul 21, 2019 6:12 am

Teralitha wrote:
Sun Jul 21, 2019 3:28 am
My argument is for immersion. I feel more sneaky while playing if I am crouching. How bout this... Sneak button(toggle) to begin using sneak skill at half effect with 25% speed reduction. Crouch + sneak to get the full effect with 65% speed reduction (no toggle) That would be more realistic/immersive than the current iteration.
Well my thought is fine. if you want to crouch all through a dungeon raise the fatigue cost for moving around to about double and grant very little bonus to stealth. That's realistic. You get some real immersion there. If you are not feeling it go walk a mile crouched and see if you are not dead tired afterward. There is a really good reason people don't do this. Realistically the fatigue cost should probably be 4 times as high. I'd be surprised if a person in good condition could low walk more that 5 miles in a day. When looking to stay concealed, the crouch is meant to disguise the head and shoulders. Again, in a dungeon this is pointless. When sneaking past doorways etc. all that is important is your ability to move silently. My thought is that DF did this right and modern games use a crouch as a sort of if everyone else is doing it we should too sort of thing.

If we are changing the way the game works merely for the purpose of immersion for a minority of people that is clearly the realm of a mod.
Remember always 'What would Julian Do?'.
Windows 10 Pro 64 bit. DFU Ver. Alpha 0.10.7

Teralitha
Posts: 260
Joined: Wed Jul 17, 2019 3:44 pm

Re: Crouch - gameplay purpose?

Post by Teralitha » Sun Jul 21, 2019 6:15 am

Who crouches through a whole dungeon? Who sneaks past doors? You sneak into doors and sneak up behind your enemy for a backstab, if you can get there without being noticed. A fully upright person will get noticed easier than a person with a low profile.
Last edited by Teralitha on Sun Jul 21, 2019 6:20 am, edited 2 times in total.

User avatar
jayhova
Posts: 594
Joined: Wed Jul 19, 2017 7:54 pm
Contact:

Re: Crouch - gameplay purpose?

Post by jayhova » Sun Jul 21, 2019 6:18 am

No one with any sense. But I might move silently through the whole dungeon and frequently do. Move silently and get a backstab with a critical strike and bam! Dead vampire or sorcerer or whatever.
Remember always 'What would Julian Do?'.
Windows 10 Pro 64 bit. DFU Ver. Alpha 0.10.7

Post Reply