Optionally simpler dungeons

Discuss Daggerfall Unity and Daggerfall Tools for Unity.
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Prester Lewin
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Joined: Thu Sep 13, 2018 2:16 pm

Re: Optionally simpler dungeons

Post by Prester Lewin »

Thanks, Hazelnut, I'll take a look at that. The worst thing I've had as a quest object was werewolf's blood on the floor of a torture room, with other blood stains on the furniture, as well. I clicked on it just by chance.

If Interkarma or other devs get the smaller dungeon option up and running and want it systematically play-tested, I'd be glad to help.

One issue with a one block dungeon would be making sure all parts are connected, so that all possible spawn locations are accessible through normal play. Some of the less common variants of block types would need careful scrutiny.

It would also provide the chance of recording places that are problematic to teleport to, although I think I would need something more than the in-game quest generating system in order to do it systematically.

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Jay_H
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Re: Optionally simpler dungeons

Post by Jay_H »

Interkarma wrote: Wed Nov 14, 2018 9:59 pm I have a branch of the code with a proof of concept for smaller dungeons that can be enabled by settings: Experimental Smaller Dungeons.
??? You're just full of surprises!! :lol: This is awesome to see. I'll wait my turn 'til it enters the game proper.

FilthyCasual523
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Joined: Tue Feb 06, 2018 6:06 am

Re: Optionally simpler dungeons

Post by FilthyCasual523 »

This is actually a great idea! And if Interkarma has the proof of concept, I'd love to see this make it in at some point. It'll be an optional fix to one of the many issues Daggerfall Classic had -- and yes, it IS an issue, even though it's still fun to romp through those massive dungeons.

...Just not when you're in there doing a quest. Those time limit deadlines can sneak up on you out of nowhere if you get lost, and I personally find them scarier than Ancient Liches.

jedidia
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Re: Optionally simpler dungeons

Post by jedidia »

I have no problem with the dungeon sizes in daggerfall. In fact, I consider it one of the outstanding aspects of the game. Exploring a dungeon can actually feel like an adventure.

That said, I certainly have a host of issues with their *design*. Oftentimes they are quite unnecessarily confusing, and devoid of any logic or sense.
Somewhere, at some point in some time in some universe, I'll probably undertake an attempt to put some decently logical dungeon generation into daggerfall unity, but right now I have no idea yet if it'll be this universe or an alternative one... Right now I have no idea how the dungeon parts are structured and not really the time to learn, unfortunately.

MoloMowChow
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Joined: Sun Dec 09, 2018 8:11 am

Re: Optionally simpler dungeons

Post by MoloMowChow »

I figured I put in my two cents here as a newbie.

Since I started with Daggerfall Unity, I had at one point, tried going back to the past and playing the Classic Daggerfall on the DosBox setup to get an idea of what it was like.
I could see how dungeon delving in the Classic Daggerfall would be a real pain in the ass with the dated controls, lower resolution view size, and the map GUI being much less functional. It was laggy and you had to rely on the buttons to move and rotate the map. It also couldn't display the entire dungeon, with segments missing from view and no transparency between hallways.

However, compared to the classic version (as of Daggerfall Unity build #139), I really enjoy dungeon diving in DF Unity. With the new map GUI features and mouse control implemented in Daggerfall Unity, it allows for easier, farther zooming and free form camera movement along with adjustable transparency. I'm able to much more quickly and easily discern my current dungeon location and explore areas I haven't been to yet much faster. This makes exploring the larger dungeons a joy to me, even if it takes time to find my target. The current sizes of dungeons do not bother me at all in DF Unity.

As jedidia above me had said, the design of the dungeons are the bigger issue here now that the GUI functionality is more modern, rather than the size. It anything, it think that it isn't that the dungeons aren't simple enough, it's that they are too simple as is now with Daggerfall Unity!

With many, many winding hallways, it makes most dungeons more of a zigzag labyrinth than anything else, making the dungeons seem larger than it really is because you're walking down many long winding hallways for longer distances. There are the occasional large rooms here and there, but not enough in my opinion. I'd like to see more rooms connected to each other rather than all of them being separated by hallways all the time.
Also, the furniture peppered throughout the rooms don't do anything 99% of the time unless it happens to be a secret switch for a nearby puzzle. When it does happen to be a secret switch, it won't look any different than before (like the one where you have to "sit" on a throne to activate a door). I'd like to see furniture play bigger roles in dungeons outside of just being decoration and the handful of puzzles. Perhaps shelves can contain some occasional minor loot, or maybe beds can serve a function involving resting for quicker recovery?

Quest targets seem to be the main issue with some people not liking how long it takes without any clue or direction inside dungeons. If only there were obvious landmarks or indications inside dungeons themselves that point you toward the quest targets? As it stands, important quest targets can be in any random closet in the dungeon. But I think that quest targets should be placed in more thematic/important looking areas in dungeons. For example, princesses should be kept in large, decorated throne rooms. Alchemical ingredients be kept in alchemy lab rooms filled with tables and shelves, etc. This would make finding quests targets more directed, rather than wandering aimlessly hoping you find the right closet. There are already those kinds of thematic looking rooms Daggerfall's dungeons, but they're just treated like any other room at the moment.

However, I can tell that this sort of complexity will only be possible far in the future even after Daggerfall Unity reaches content parity with classic, and would likely require mods.


If and when they do decide to implement a "simpler" dungeon feature, I hope they keep it optional. I enjoy the dungeons as is, and I think it can only get better without forcing them to downsize.

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