DFU vs Classic Differences: Master List

Discuss Daggerfall Unity and Daggerfall Tools for Unity.
BansheeXYZ
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Joined: Fri Oct 23, 2015 8:19 pm

DFU vs Classic Differences: Master List

Post by BansheeXYZ » Fri Dec 28, 2018 5:21 pm

Bugs & oversights in classic's final version 1.07.213 that have been fixed in DFU (** means unaddressed)
========================================================
-Buggy collision can get you stuck, propel you upward, or drop you into the "void".
-Loot piles can disappear from your house or boat.
-Items can disappear from your wagon.
-Dropping gold destroys it instead of actually dropping it onto the ground or into your wagon.
-Containers with drawers aren't always lootable.
-Lootable container contents reset and replenish just by loading a save, not by leaving the area.
-Armor rating values are understated in the "info" popup.
-Weapon damage values are overstated in the "info" popup.
-The "Dodging" skill makes enemies harder to hit when it's supposed to make the player harder to hit..
-Wandering NPCs can get stuck on each other and flicker rapidly.
-Sound effects can glitch out and emit loud, persistent static.
-Loading a save where you are in town can fail to spawn certain static NPCs until you leave and reenter that town. (Example: the spellmaker in Aldingwall's Mages Guild).
-Exiting certain dungeons will cause your movement to become diagonal until you toggle the cursor. (Example: The Citadel of Hawking)
-Any damage received after committing a crime triggers the surrender prompt, even if that damage didn't come from guards.
-Surrendering to guards after committing breaking and entering doesn't work and your hp drops to 1.
-Surrendering to guards after committing assault results in a murder charge.
-If you teleport to an indoor anchor while on horseback, you will still be on your horse.
-The quest system assigns male names and pronouns to female quest-givers.
-Found items can sometimes have wrong, abnormally high sell values.
-Swinging a weapon while levitating drains more stamina.
-Framerate influences the rate at which your running skill improves.
-Shields never get damaged like other armor pieces.
-You can jump across the surface of water without falling in.
-Your horse can't jump.
-If you load a game that was saved before a prepared targeting spell was fired, the game crashes when you fire.
-If you cast a spell, delete it from your book, then hotkey "recast" it, the game crashes.
-A targeting spell costs spell points before you actually fire it.
-The message that appears when hotkey recasting a spell with no spellbook doesn't appear when hotkey casting.
-Ships don't accept letters of credit as payment for trip cost
-The explored areas of a dungeon map are wiped upon leaving the area.
-Some static NPCs in castles Daggerfall, Wayrest, and Sentinel have missing portraits.
-The "I'm At" button on the region map doesn't work when zoomed in.
-Clicking a message window to close it registers a click on what was behind it.
-If you own a ship, you are forced to fast-travel by ship.
-Fast traveling recklessly by ship over a mostly water route can result in a negative trip cost.
-Moving platforms continue to move on screens that pause the game.
-Moving platforms can move through you instead of crushing you.
-In certain areas of a dungeon, you can rest without interruption because the game fails to find a valid spawn location for the interrupting monster.
-You cannot fast-travel with pacified enemies nearby.
-Quest-related enemies can be pacified.
-If you move repairable items onto an anvil that has items being repaired on it, then exit the window without repairing them, the items stay on the anvil.
-When you attempt sleeping in an inn for 100+ hours, you trigger the 99 hour limit message, but then you appear in a bedroom as though you slept.
-Range spells have poor collision and can pass straight through enemies.
-Falling into water from a great height damages you like you're hitting the ground.
-Bookshelves in libraries, temples, and guilds are frequently empty of books.
-Bookshelves in temples and guilds are rank restricted, but are immediately accessible to starting ranks.
-The color of town and home dots on the region map are swapped, not matching their corresponding button colors.
-Spell effects don't expire after the hour-long passage of time that occurs from stamina exhaustion.
-If you exhaust your stamina with an attack rather than movement, it will always result in death.
-Loans from banks do not default past their due date.
-Double-clicking to buy a spell closes the buy window.
-The spell effect "Create Item" does not destroy the item after duration expires, nor does it prevent the item from being dropped or sold.
-Pursuant enemies in the wilderness will disappear and cease existing once they cross the threshold of a new zone.
-Quests can use the houses that are used for underground guilds like the Thieves' Guild and Dark Brotherhood.
-If the player receives a quest item or reward while in lycanthrope form, the game will crash.
-Lycanthropy hand graphics are drawn ontop of the HUD instead of behind it.
-Some static NPCs are mistakenly given the spymaster status and will trigger a Thieves Guild menu instead of a dialog window.
-Some static NPCs are mistakenly given the beldam status and will trigger a Witch Coven menu instead of a dialog window.**
-Lots of erroneously stretched textures.
-Lots of typos.
-Lots of quest bugs.

-Non-flying enemies can spawn on water tiles.**
-Non-flying enemies walk on water tiles in pursuit of you.**
-The armor type "Chain" does not show its metal, thus a character forbidden from all metal materials can nonsensically equip chain.**
-Shields can spawn with inapplicable material/construction types like "Leather" and "Chain".**
-Nothing stops you from buying spells you already have and a duplicate entry appears in your book.**
-A gold sound effect plays when buying stuff from shelves, but not spells, rooms, and food.**
-Static NPCs can reference themselves in the third person when asking them for work.**
-Your race's natural advantages don't appear as null-point entries in the custom class editor, thus you can duplicate or contradict them.**
-The spell effects "Charm, Disintegrate, Drain, Pacify, Soul Trap, and Silence" have elemental selection in the spell maker.**
-The spell effect "Charm" is described as a reputation booster, but pacifies human humanoids.**
-The spell effect "Pacify Humanoid" does not pacify human enemies despite them belonging to that category.**


Interface Changes *optional **requested
=================
-Controls: default to mouse-look and allow interaction while in mouse-look. [LESS CLICKS]
-Controls: click to swing and retain mouse-look while swinging.* [LESS CONFUSING]
-Controls: dismount automatically when trying to enter a building on horseback. [LESS CLICKS]
-Controls: clicking on a lootless corpse disables its clickability so that nearby lootable corpses are easier to click.[LESS CLICKS]
-Feedback: display store hours when clicking locked store doors instead of requiring info mode.** [LESS CLICKS]
-Feedback: display message when you enter water with too much weight to stay buoyant.[LESS CONFUSING]
-Feedback: display failure message for "recast" hotkey after deleting last-used spell.** [LESS CONFUSING]
-Feedback: display failure message for "use magic item" hotkey when you have no usable magic items. [LESS CONFUSING]
-Feedback: messages scroll out smoothly. [LESS CONFUSING]
-HUD: display swapped health and stamina bar colors.* [LESS CONFUSING]
-HUD: display arrow counter when a bow is equipped.* [LESS CLICKS]
-Spellbook Screen: spellbook can still be opened when empty. [LESS CONFUSING]
-Spellbook Screen: clicking delete prompts "are you sure?"
-Spellbook Screen: alphabetically sort spells. [LESS CONFUSING]
-Guildmaster Screen: refusing a quest takes you back to the guildmaster screen instead of closing it. [LESS CLICKS]
-Inventory Screen: make potions and ingredients stackable. [LESS CLICKS]
-Inventory Screen: display your encumbrance. [LESS CLICKS]
-Inventory Screen: display more inventory slots at once.* [LESS CLICKS]
-Inventory Screen: display the amount of gold you're carrying and its weight.** [LESS CLICKS & LESS CONFUSING]
-Inventory Screen: display an item's attributes and enchantments on mouseover.** [LESS CLICKS]
-Inventory Screen: display the stacked quantity of gold pieces in loot piles. [LESS CLICKS]
-Inventory Screen: display no message when picking up gold. [LESS CLICKS]
-Inventory Screen: display the material type of helmets and shields.* [LESS CONFUSING]
-Inventory Screen: default to "Remove" instead of "Equip" when searching corpses or loot piles. [LESS CLICKS]
-Inventory Screen: display scrollbars in scrollbar area. [LESS CLICKS]
-Inventory Screen: display no message when trying to use unusables. [LESS CLICKS]
-Inventory Screen: clicking on the ground graphic specifies the loot pile's appearance.
-Stats Screen: display your reputation next to guild rank under "Affiliations." [LESS CONFUSING]
-Stats Screen: make "Level" clickable and display requirements for next level. [LESS CONFUSING]
-Character Creation Screen: allow backtracking via the Escape key. [LESS CLICKS]
-Logbook Screen: make quest locations clickable fast-travel links.** [LESS CLICKS]
-Interior Map Screen: repurpose all mouse functions for map manipulation. [LESS CLICKS]
-Interior Map Screen: display vertical marker over player and exit. [LESS CONFUSING]
-Exterior Map Screen: repurpose all mouse functions for map manipulation. [LESS CLICKS]
-Exterior Map Screen: display directional arrow instead of blinking dot for player. [LESS CONFUSING]
-Region Map Screen: when using "Find", search for keyword matches anywhere in the location name. [LESS TYPING]
-Save/Load Screen: make slots unlimited instead of 6.


Mechanics Changes *optional
=================
-You can jump higher and look around while jumping.
-Houses that used to say "this house has nothing of value" can now be entered.
-Mixing a wrong recipe no longer creates a junk "Potion of Unknown Power."
-Wagons/carts can no longer be sold.
-Magic weapons and armor can be repaired.*
-Repairs are instantaneous instead of taking days.*
-You can climb down, sideways, and across ceilings.*
-Useless items have been given their intended purpose. Torches, lanterns, and candles can be used to create light. Oil can be used to refuel lanterns.*
-Enemy AI is smarter.*
Last edited by BansheeXYZ on Sun Jul 28, 2019 10:22 pm, edited 46 times in total.

Narf the Mouse
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Re: DFU vs Classic Master List

Post by Narf the Mouse » Fri Dec 28, 2018 5:36 pm

Let's not turn this into a "versus" thing. Without Classic, DFU wouldn't exist.
Previous experience tells me it's very easy to misunderstand the tone, intent, or meaning of what I've posted. If you have questions, ask.

BansheeXYZ
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Re: DFU vs Classic Master List

Post by BansheeXYZ » Fri Dec 28, 2018 5:40 pm

Narf the Mouse wrote:
Fri Dec 28, 2018 5:36 pm
Let's not turn this into a "versus" thing. Without Classic, DFU wouldn't exist.
This isn't a debate thread, it's a list of differences for new users to appreciate all the work that's gone into DFU. If I'm a new user and I download DFU, what tells me all this besides what I've made here?

ACNAero
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Re: DFU vs Classic Master List

Post by ACNAero » Fri Dec 28, 2018 5:43 pm

What about the changes to languages and using language skills? I remember it was changed to work automatically on proximity, but I'm not sure if that was kept or reverted to classic functionality.

BansheeXYZ
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Re: DFU vs Classic Master List

Post by BansheeXYZ » Fri Dec 28, 2018 5:52 pm

ACNAero wrote:
Fri Dec 28, 2018 5:43 pm
What about the changes to languages and using language skills? I remember it was changed to work automatically on proximity, but I'm not sure if that was kept or reverted to classic functionality.
Dunno, I haven't really tested that stuff. I doubt pacifying would ever be automatic, but it probably shouldn't involve a toggle either.

My bug list is definitely missing a bunch of stuff. I'd like to hear from Interkarma to see if there are any spells that didn't do what they said and he had to fix. Or if he made any changes to spell availability on merchants.

A lot of the Daggerfall buglists online include bugs from old versions that got fixed in 213. It took a while to verify all the real ones, but there's also stuff I couldn't test because it was too specific or didn't give steps to reproduce. One list claimed that the daedra of knowledge won't talk to barbarians, for example. Another list says a custom character can randomly start with 1000hp.

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Hazelnut
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Re: DFU vs Classic Master List

Post by Hazelnut » Fri Dec 28, 2018 6:36 pm

ACNAero wrote:
Fri Dec 28, 2018 5:43 pm
What about the changes to languages and using language skills? I remember it was changed to work automatically on proximity, but I'm not sure if that was kept or reverted to classic functionality.
It was reverted to what UESP says is the classic pacify formula. It always worked automatically, with the only difference in DFU is getting a message to inform you that you pacified something. Assume the whole thing is an abstraction of talking to the mob and persuading them you are not someone they need to fight. The Archaeologists mod has an updated formula that increases the usefulness - that's where I moved the formula changes when I reverted them.

ACNAero
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Re: DFU vs Classic Master List

Post by ACNAero » Fri Dec 28, 2018 6:57 pm

Hazelnut wrote:
Fri Dec 28, 2018 6:36 pm
It always worked automatically, with the only difference in DFU is getting a message to inform you that you pacified something.
Huh. I thought you had to sneak up on them and talk to them for it to work in classic.

goes to the googles.

Huh, well, apparently not. :oops: Well, glad to see that classic isn't as clunky as it seems, if nothing else :p.

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Jukic
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Re: DFU vs Classic Differences: Master List

Post by Jukic » Fri Dec 28, 2018 7:43 pm

I think such a list is essential ! well done Banshee! :geek:

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Hazelnut
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Re: DFU vs Classic Master List

Post by Hazelnut » Fri Dec 28, 2018 9:34 pm

ACNAero wrote:
Fri Dec 28, 2018 6:57 pm
Hazelnut wrote:
Fri Dec 28, 2018 6:36 pm
It always worked automatically, with the only difference in DFU is getting a message to inform you that you pacified something.
Huh. I thought you had to sneak up on them and talk to them for it to work in classic.
This is why I felt a little feedback message was worth doing.

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pango
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Re: DFU vs Classic Differences: Master List

Post by pango » Fri Dec 28, 2018 10:01 pm

Impressive list! And yet I'm pretty sure a lot is missing, I will certainly forget (or not be aware of) a lot of differences too... in reverse, don't mind if I mention some changes I worked on, it's just that I remember those more vividly than others:
- more than 6 save slots, slots list by character
- quicksave (f9), quickload (f12)
- improved 3d map (higher depth of view, better controls)
- I saw in code that armor damage takes shield into account (the shield takes part of the damage)
- scrollbars: in classic you have to click repeatedly on up or down arrow buttons to scroll lists
- region map: find location by substring, not only prefix
- region map: "L" key to list all (known?) locations
- region map: "I'm at" button works when zoomed in
- town maps: can be scrolled by mouse dragging
- inventory screen: mode defaults to REMOVE instead of EQUIP if you click on a loot pile
- inventory screen: Ctrl key + click to split a stack
- fast travel: boats accept letters of credit
- dungeons: light mechanics (dark dungeons, but candles, torches and lamps can be used to make light) (optional)
- gameplay: can start a game outside of a dungeon (optional)
- shops: quality hint text as scrolling text instead of messagebox (optional)
When a measure becomes a target, it ceases to be a good measure.
-- Charles Goodhart

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