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"Skill and attribute changes after prison time"

Posted: Wed May 15, 2019 1:17 am
by Interkarma
The 0.9 roadmap list contains an item "skill and attribute changes after prison time". I added this item from memory while writing the initial roadmap a few years back. Now while planning out 0.9, I can't find any solid information about this.

To confirm in classic, I sent two of my characters on consecutive murder sprees and surrendered to guards each time, racking up a total of over 3 years in prison each. Then I compared their attributes and skills against screenshots taken before they did all that hard time. There were no changes to either character's attributes or skills.

It's looking like that roadmap item shouldn't actually be there and it's just a case of faulty memory on my part. Before I remove this item from the roadmap, does anyone else know something more about this?

Re: "Skill and attribute changes after prison time"

Posted: Wed May 15, 2019 7:30 am
by jayhova
How strange. I remember this as well.

Re: "Skill and attribute changes after prison time"

Posted: Wed May 15, 2019 7:45 am
by Aleryn
Is it possible that this was a feature in early versions of Daggerfall before the latter and final patches by Bethesda?

Also, I'm pretty sure this attribute loss can occur in Morrowind... not sure about Arena though.

Re: "Skill and attribute changes after prison time"

Posted: Sat May 18, 2019 7:20 pm
by Narf the Mouse
Even if it's not in Classic, I'd prefer it be a toggle. It makes sense. :)

Re: "Skill and attribute changes after prison time"

Posted: Mon May 20, 2019 4:27 am
by BansheeXYZ
Narf the Mouse wrote:
Sat May 18, 2019 7:20 pm
Even if it's not in Classic, I'd prefer it be a toggle. It makes sense. :)
Since character leveling is based on skill gains, wouldn't this effectively uncap the maximum level and allow infinite leveling? Just go to jail on purpose, lose skills, and re-raise them. And since many formulas related to difficulty involve clvl, couldn't this horribly break the game?

Re: "Skill and attribute changes after prison time"

Posted: Mon May 20, 2019 6:18 am
by pango
BansheeXYZ wrote:
Mon May 20, 2019 4:27 am
Since character leveling is based on skill gains, wouldn't this effectively uncap the maximum level and allow infinite leveling? Just go to jail on purpose, lose skills, and re-raise them. And since many formulas related to difficulty involve clvl, couldn't this horribly break the game?
It depends on implementation details, current implementation seems safe.
Code substracts the sum of skills-that-count you had when you started from your current sum of skills-that-count, add 28, divide by 15, round down. If it's greater than your current level, time to level up!
So if skills decrease, it should take you some time to rebuilds skills to where they were at, and be able to level up again...

Re: "Skill and attribute changes after prison time"

Posted: Mon May 20, 2019 8:05 am
by mikeprichard
Has this been confirmed as something that was actually in classic to begin with? If not, it does seem exploit-prone to me (regardless of the need to take some time to re-level up your skills as pango explained); it would seem more like mod territory, or at least an option rather than a default forced mechanic. In that case, the skills reduced after prison time should only be chosen among the player's Miscellaneous skills, and attributes should probably not be reduced.

Re: "Skill and attribute changes after prison time"

Posted: Mon May 20, 2019 9:25 am
by Interkarma
I'm thinking this is one of those faulty memory moments on my part. But interesting how some people remember it as well. Maybe this is another example of the Mandela Effect in action. :)

Re: "Skill and attribute changes after prison time"

Posted: Wed May 22, 2019 9:58 pm
by Dalebvr
This was one of the features that was intended, but apparently was switched off when they went gold. I was on the old boards as DF was being coded and Julian talked about it a few times, but when the game arrived the feature was not there.

And just as a general statement, I've been ghosting this project, sadly expecting it to go the way so many other attempts seem to have gone. Congratulations getting this far, and it looks as if the goal is in reach! I'll kinda miss the old glitches, but this is going to be so much fun to play again.

Re: "Skill and attribute changes after prison time"

Posted: Wed May 22, 2019 10:23 pm
by Interkarma
Welcome to the forums, and thanks for the information. :)

That's probably it, I've soaked up the information somewhere in the early days and have "remembered" it for so long that it became a soft fact. I've removed this item from the roadmap. It could probably be made an optional mod later on if someone really wants this.