Do "Critical Strike" skill affect Damage?

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Firebrand
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Do "Critical Strike" skill affect Damage?

Post by Firebrand » Thu Jul 18, 2019 7:25 pm

I've read many posts, had a look into the source code of DFU, but still can't figure out if in current Daggerfall Unity "Critical Strike" skill affects only "Hit Chance" or also, when succesful, deals additional damage.

In classic Daggerfall, seems just "Hit Chance", according to UESP, but in DFU I've literally no idea.

Can you help me? :)

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Interkarma
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Re: Do "Critical Strike" skill affect Damage?

Post by Interkarma » Thu Jul 18, 2019 7:34 pm

Welcome to the forums. :) Critical Strike influences chance to hit. If you're after the code, it's in FormulaHelper.cs when calculating hit chance. Direct link below.

https://github.com/Interkarma/daggerfal ... er.cs#L951

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mikeprichard
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Re: Do "Critical Strike" skill affect Damage?

Post by mikeprichard » Thu Jul 18, 2019 8:11 pm

I always wondered about this - even from the inconsistent descriptions on the UESP page, it seems the original intent of the skill (which would also make more sense from the skill's name) was to increase the chance of critical - i.e. greater - damage. But I guess base DFU has to inherit the actual classic implementation where the skill just adds to hit chance by (skill value/10)%.

Teralitha
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Re: Do "Critical Strike" skill affect Damage?

Post by Teralitha » Fri Jul 19, 2019 2:14 pm

Increasing your weapon skill and agility increases hit chance. Doesnt seem to make much sense that critical strike does the same thing. Perhaps the web info means increases chance (to hit with) a critical strike and its not explained clearly. In game it appears that sometimes you do more damage than normal. And usually when I see that happen, I will get an increase in the critical strike skill. Ive seen backstab do more damage on several occasions also, when it triggers.

Pretty sure critical strike is doing more damage when it triggers. Logic would suggest that it does, and my observations seem to agree with it. That or the designers of classic daggerfall messed it up. But I dont think so.

From the wiki: "A character who is skilled in Critical Striking knows how to inflict the greatest amount of damage to any target. This does not translate as greater accuracy; but if a successful hit is scored, a veritable explosion of damage will result. Assassins and other business-like predators favor this skill."

The comments after that are just saying that the skill only increases the critical strike chance to occur on hit. It doesnt mean that critical strike doesnt do more damage, it does. Otherwise the description would be contradictory. Its just not explained clearly and confuses people. It works the same way in every other game you may have played.

Perhaps the wiki should read more like this: Critical Strike Skill increases chance for a critical strike to occur. A successful critical strike does increased damage.

The wiki doesnt say hw much extra damage occurs, and I dont know how much. Perhaps someone who can understand teh game code can tell us. The wiki says backstab does x3 damage. Traditionally in other games, criticals generally are x2 damage and I think its the same here.
Last edited by Teralitha on Fri Jul 19, 2019 2:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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mikeprichard
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Re: Do "Critical Strike" skill affect Damage?

Post by mikeprichard » Fri Jul 19, 2019 2:28 pm

Interkarma's post and link above show that in DFU as in classic (apparently), the skill in fact only affects chance to hit.

As I already said, I also don't think that's logical, but base DFU is intended to mimic classic core gameplay. UESP is misleading in suggesting (only in two lines, then contradicting the suggestion elsewhere) that the skill has other effects, although I suspect the increased damage may have been the developers' original intention. I'm not sure of the source of the incorrect statements on UESP, but my guess is they were from Daggerfall Chronicles or similar game documentation that's been proven to be frequently inconsistent with actual released classic game mechanics.

Teralitha
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Re: Do "Critical Strike" skill affect Damage?

Post by Teralitha » Fri Jul 19, 2019 2:37 pm

"// Apply critical strike modifier.
if (Dice100.SuccessRoll(attacker.Skills.GetLiveSkillValue(DFCareer.Skills.CriticalStrike)))
{
chanceToHit += (attacker.Skills.GetLiveSkillValue(DFCareer.Skills.CriticalStrike) / 10);
}
"

When I read this, I am seeing.... when you make an attack, it checks to see if the hit is successful, and if it is, then it checks to see if a critical strike is successful(based on the skill %), and if so, it applies the critical strike effect. It doesnt tell us in that code what the critical strike effect is, just that its successful or not. The info that tells what the critical strike effect actually is would be somewhere else.
Last edited by Teralitha on Fri Jul 19, 2019 2:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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mikeprichard
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Re: Do "Critical Strike" skill affect Damage?

Post by mikeprichard » Fri Jul 19, 2019 2:39 pm

I'll let Interkarma step in again if he's interested in explaining the code further.

Teralitha
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Re: Do "Critical Strike" skill affect Damage?

Post by Teralitha » Fri Jul 19, 2019 2:40 pm

Well I can read the code and thats what it says. I dont know where in the games code that it says what the critical strike effect is, and it doesnt say so in that line of code. That info is somewhere else. Or doesnt exist.
Last edited by Teralitha on Fri Jul 19, 2019 2:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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mikeprichard
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Re: Do "Critical Strike" skill affect Damage?

Post by mikeprichard » Fri Jul 19, 2019 2:41 pm

OK.

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TheLacus
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Re: Do "Critical Strike" skill affect Damage?

Post by TheLacus » Fri Jul 19, 2019 2:54 pm

Teralitha wrote:
Fri Jul 19, 2019 2:37 pm
"// Apply critical strike modifier.
if (Dice100.SuccessRoll(attacker.Skills.GetLiveSkillValue(DFCareer.Skills.CriticalStrike)))
{
chanceToHit += (attacker.Skills.GetLiveSkillValue(DFCareer.Skills.CriticalStrike) / 10);
}
"

When I read this, I am seeing.... when you make an attack, it checks to see if the hit is successful, and if it is, then it checks to see if a critical strike is successful(based on the skill %), and if so, it applies the critical strike effect. It doesnt tell us in that code what the critical strike effect is, just that its successful or not. The info that tells what the critical strike effect actually is would be somewhere else.
If critical strike is applied successfully, it increases the chance that hit is successful. This is what the code above does ;)
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