Do "Critical Strike" skill affect Damage?

Discuss Daggerfall Unity and Daggerfall Tools for Unity.
User avatar
mikeprichard
Posts: 695
Joined: Sun Feb 19, 2017 6:49 pm

Re: Do "Critical Strike" skill affect Damage?

Post by mikeprichard » Fri Jul 19, 2019 11:55 pm

Teralitha wrote:
Fri Jul 19, 2019 11:54 pm
So the big question now is, will it be that way for DFU 1.0? Or will it get changed to be in line with the manual.
Yet again, I doubt it. Interkarma can speak for himself, but the silence is deafening.

But mods are a thing.

User avatar
jayhova
Posts: 581
Joined: Wed Jul 19, 2017 7:54 pm
Contact:

Re: Do "Critical Strike" skill affect Damage?

Post by jayhova » Sun Jul 21, 2019 12:23 am

Making changes that directly impact game balance IMHO fall squarely in MOD territory.
Remember always 'What would Julian Do?'.
Windows 10 Pro 64 bit. DFU Ver. PreAlpha 0.8.6

User avatar
jayhova
Posts: 581
Joined: Wed Jul 19, 2017 7:54 pm
Contact:

Re: Do "Critical Strike" skill affect Damage?

Post by jayhova » Fri Aug 02, 2019 5:01 am

I really had to read through this whole thread to grasp what was going on with critical strike and what it actually does. ,

So in simple terms PC initiates an attack
There is a critical strike skill check
If that skill check is successful, a bonus is added to the hit probability
The attack is compared to the defence of the opponent
If the attack is successful normal damage is applied

The one thing I am not clear on is how the to hit bonus is calculated.
Remember always 'What would Julian Do?'.
Windows 10 Pro 64 bit. DFU Ver. PreAlpha 0.8.6

User avatar
mikeprichard
Posts: 695
Joined: Sun Feb 19, 2017 6:49 pm

Re: Do "Critical Strike" skill affect Damage?

Post by mikeprichard » Fri Aug 02, 2019 5:49 am

jayhova wrote:
Fri Aug 02, 2019 5:01 am
I really had to read through this whole thread to grasp what was going on with critical strike and what it actually does. ,

So in simple terms PC initiates an attack
There is a critical strike skill check
If that skill check is successful, a bonus is added to the hit probability
The attack is compared to the defence of the opponent
If the attack is successful normal damage is applied

The one thing I am not clear on is how the to hit bonus is calculated.
Mostly, yes, but it's much simpler than the back-and-forth in this topic would seem. Put simply, Critical Strike skill gives a % chance equal to your Critical Strike skill value to increase the overall hit chance by (Critical Strike skill value/10)%. I.e.:

1) You swing at an enemy
2) If you have a Critical Strike skill of 50, you have a 50% chance of adding 50/10 = 5% to your chance to hit the enemy
3) You hit the enemy, or you don't

That's it, full stop.

User avatar
jayhova
Posts: 581
Joined: Wed Jul 19, 2017 7:54 pm
Contact:

Re: Do "Critical Strike" skill affect Damage?

Post by jayhova » Fri Aug 02, 2019 7:53 am

so critical strike has a 1-100% chance to give you a 1-10% bonus to your chance to hit.
Remember always 'What would Julian Do?'.
Windows 10 Pro 64 bit. DFU Ver. PreAlpha 0.8.6

Teralitha
Posts: 260
Joined: Wed Jul 17, 2019 3:44 pm

Re: Do "Critical Strike" skill affect Damage?

Post by Teralitha » Fri Aug 02, 2019 9:24 am

jayhova wrote:
Fri Aug 02, 2019 7:53 am
so critical strike has a 1-100% chance to give you a 1-10% bonus to your chance to hit.
You got it.

BansheeXYZ
Posts: 493
Joined: Fri Oct 23, 2015 8:19 pm

Re: Do "Critical Strike" skill affect Damage?

Post by BansheeXYZ » Fri Aug 02, 2019 9:49 am

I just want to know why dodging was considered bugged, but this wasn't. Even though dodging resulted in a penalty, they both seem to be missing part of their formula.

Anyone ever played brutal doom? It would be cool to see critical strikes spill out some extra particle blood as a visual cue. You know, to know if you landed one.

User avatar
mikeprichard
Posts: 695
Joined: Sun Feb 19, 2017 6:49 pm

Re: Do "Critical Strike" skill affect Damage?

Post by mikeprichard » Fri Aug 02, 2019 10:15 am

BansheeXYZ wrote:
Fri Aug 02, 2019 9:49 am
I just want to know why dodging was considered bugged, but this wasn't. Even though dodging resulted in a penalty, they both seem to be missing part of their formula.
My understanding is that Dodging actually had a formula that clearly intended the described behavior, but some minor error (a single digit or whatever those mad smart coding nerds talk about) was off. On the other hand, Critical Strike's formula never included anything related to damage to begin with. It could be argued back and forth all year about what the in-game description said, what logic says, what other games do, etc. etc., but although I would agree "Critical Strike" intuitively "should" probably add to damage, it's been clearly decided to be beyond the scope of DFU to change how the classic coding was done.

I'm going to move on to other topics now... kind of worn out on this one. :)

Teralitha
Posts: 260
Joined: Wed Jul 17, 2019 3:44 pm

Re: Do "Critical Strike" skill affect Damage?

Post by Teralitha » Fri Aug 02, 2019 2:56 pm

And the manual also says it does damage ;)

Ommamar
Posts: 330
Joined: Thu Jul 18, 2019 3:08 am

Re: Do "Critical Strike" skill affect Damage?

Post by Ommamar » Fri Aug 02, 2019 3:48 pm

Only the Bethesda developers could even attempt to explain how this skill was developed, the intent behind it, how it was implemented then adjusted, and it is likely no one would be able to without some kind of documentation. What we can say for sure is by the documentation that is available it doesn't do what the initial intent of the skill seemed to be.

To the question you could answer yes as it does have an effect on whether you hit an enemy thus causing damage to that enemy. Does it add additional damage? I think the discussion in this thread clearly shows it does not work as many thought it did for many many years.

Is it worth taking as a primary or major skill? Well it is checked each time you swing a weapon, how my understanding of how skills and levels work in DFU each attempt at a skill adds to increasing that skill. The formula I have heard to get a level is all 3 of your primary skills have input, the top 2 of your major have input, and the top one of your minor has input. You need to get 15 skill raises spread over those 6 skills to get a level. So if you are a heavy melee user this would be a way that you could get fast increase in the skill pool. So if your intent is to get levels quickly this skill can help with that if placed in the primary, major, or minor pools.

Post Reply