Do "Critical Strike" skill affect Damage?

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mikeprichard
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Re: Do "Critical Strike" skill affect Damage?

Post by mikeprichard » Fri Jul 19, 2019 2:59 pm

Right, seems clear to me as well - thanks for the confirmation, TheLacus.

Teralitha
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Re: Do "Critical Strike" skill affect Damage?

Post by Teralitha » Fri Jul 19, 2019 3:02 pm

TheLacus wrote:
Fri Jul 19, 2019 2:54 pm
Teralitha wrote:
Fri Jul 19, 2019 2:37 pm
"// Apply critical strike modifier.
if (Dice100.SuccessRoll(attacker.Skills.GetLiveSkillValue(DFCareer.Skills.CriticalStrike)))
{
chanceToHit += (attacker.Skills.GetLiveSkillValue(DFCareer.Skills.CriticalStrike) / 10);
}
"

When I read this, I am seeing.... when you make an attack, it checks to see if the hit is successful, and if it is, then it checks to see if a critical strike is successful(based on the skill %), and if so, it applies the critical strike effect. It doesnt tell us in that code what the critical strike effect is, just that its successful or not. The info that tells what the critical strike effect actually is would be somewhere else.
If critical strike is applied successfully, it increases the chance that hit is successful. This is what the code above does ;)
That makes no sense. Why would a critical strike hit chance be applied after a normal hit chance is already rolled and successful? The whole premise is illogical.. But if this is from the classic game, then fine. No reason it cant be fixed right

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mikeprichard
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Re: Do "Critical Strike" skill affect Damage?

Post by mikeprichard » Fri Jul 19, 2019 3:03 pm

Modding could change it. In the meantime, I fixed the UESP page.

Teralitha
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Re: Do "Critical Strike" skill affect Damage?

Post by Teralitha » Fri Jul 19, 2019 3:12 pm

I looked through that code region twice and could not find a critical strike damage calculation. There is a backstab damage calculation though.

The very words "critical strike" have no logical place in the "to hit" calculation. It should be a "damage" calculation. The whole thing looks like a (classic) developer blunder to me.

You already have weapon skill + agility for a to hit calculation. Adding a third to hit calcuation from another skill makes no sense. So basically you have 2 skills that do the exact same thing, but added together, BUT only if the first one is successful. It seems redundant.

We all know that logically "critical strike skill" should be a damage modifier, not an extra to hit modifier on top of other to hit modifiers.

Anyway...

BansheeXYZ
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Re: Do "Critical Strike" skill affect Damage?

Post by BansheeXYZ » Fri Jul 19, 2019 3:17 pm

I agree that it sounds like another oversight bug of sorts. It's probably not supposed to be a simple chance% bonus to hit, but rather a chance% bonus to hit for extra damage. AFAIK the term "critical strike" and "critical hit" in video games and d&d has only ever meant this. I mean... the name itself implies it, how can a strike boost your chance of a strike? It's a different kind of strike with its own roll.

Final Fantasy VI, a game way more popular that Daggerfall, had a rather infamous bug where the evasion stat did nothing, and subsequently all items that boosted it were worthless. Most players didn't know it and were making the game harder on themselves for equipping those items. Nasty bug, didn't get fixed until the GBA version.

The only problem with addressing bugs like this is that the game was playtested based on the notion that it was working, when it wasn't. Not that Daggerfall excels in balance to begin with, but fixing it will make the player miss more, but deal more dps on the hits that he gets. I don't think it will have a huge impact, but it will be noticeable.
Last edited by BansheeXYZ on Fri Jul 19, 2019 3:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Teralitha
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Re: Do "Critical Strike" skill affect Damage?

Post by Teralitha » Fri Jul 19, 2019 3:19 pm

TheLacus wrote:
Fri Jul 19, 2019 2:54 pm
Teralitha wrote:
Fri Jul 19, 2019 2:37 pm
"// Apply critical strike modifier.
if (Dice100.SuccessRoll(attacker.Skills.GetLiveSkillValue(DFCareer.Skills.CriticalStrike)))
{
chanceToHit += (attacker.Skills.GetLiveSkillValue(DFCareer.Skills.CriticalStrike) / 10);
}
"

When I read this, I am seeing.... when you make an attack, it checks to see if the hit is successful, and if it is, then it checks to see if a critical strike is successful(based on the skill %), and if so, it applies the critical strike effect. It doesnt tell us in that code what the critical strike effect is, just that its successful or not. The info that tells what the critical strike effect actually is would be somewhere else.
If critical strike is applied successfully, it increases the chance that hit is successful. This is what the code above does ;)
yeah it says that. but its also saying that it only works if you already have a successful hit from your other normal hit. So, your successful hit, is even more successful then? Doesnt make sense.

To me it reads.. 'apply critical strike modifier IF you already have a successful hit." so... if the "critical strike modifier" is to boost your hit chance on an already successful hit... isnt that redundant?
Last edited by Teralitha on Fri Jul 19, 2019 3:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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mikeprichard
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Re: Do "Critical Strike" skill affect Damage?

Post by mikeprichard » Fri Jul 19, 2019 3:20 pm

Teralitha wrote:
Fri Jul 19, 2019 3:19 pm
yeah it says that. but its also saying that it only works if you already have a successful hit from your other normal hit. So, your successful hit, is even more successful then? Doesnt make sense.

To me it reads.. 'apply critical strike modifier IF you already have a successful hit." so... if the "critical strike modifier" is to boost your hit chance on an already successful hit... isnt that redundant?
It's saying that Critical Strike skill gives a % chance equal to your Critical Strike skill value to increase the overall hit chance by (Critical Strike skill value/10)%. Yet again, I agree it's not the best mechanic, but there it is.
Last edited by mikeprichard on Fri Jul 19, 2019 3:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Teralitha
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Re: Do "Critical Strike" skill affect Damage?

Post by Teralitha » Fri Jul 19, 2019 3:21 pm

mikeprichard wrote:
Fri Jul 19, 2019 3:20 pm
Teralitha wrote:
Fri Jul 19, 2019 3:19 pm
yeah it says that. but its also saying that it only works if you already have a successful hit from your other normal hit. So, your successful hit, is even more successful then? Doesnt make sense.
It's saying that Critical Strike skill gives a skill% chance to increase the hit chance by skill/10%. Yet again, I agree it's not the best mechanic, but there it is.
Thats not quite what it says, look at my edited post above.

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mikeprichard
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Re: Do "Critical Strike" skill affect Damage?

Post by mikeprichard » Fri Jul 19, 2019 3:22 pm

Teralitha wrote:
Fri Jul 19, 2019 3:21 pm
mikeprichard wrote:
Fri Jul 19, 2019 3:20 pm
Teralitha wrote:
Fri Jul 19, 2019 3:19 pm
yeah it says that. but its also saying that it only works if you already have a successful hit from your other normal hit. So, your successful hit, is even more successful then? Doesnt make sense.
It's saying that Critical Strike skill gives a skill% chance to increase the hit chance by skill/10%. Yet again, I agree it's not the best mechanic, but there it is.
Thats not quite what it says, look at my edited post above.
I saw it and replied to your edit, but as Interkarma and TheLacus explained, that is what it says. Anyway, mods can change it if you or another would like to do so. To clarify the code again:

"Dice100.SuccessRoll(attacker.Skills.GetLiveSkillValue(DFCareer.Skills.CriticalStrike))" refers to whether the Critical Strike skill roll is successful. That's the first check.

"{chanceToHit += (attacker.Skills.GetLiveSkillValue(DFCareer.Skills.CriticalStrike) / 10);}" refers to what happens if the first check is passed. In that case, chance to hit is increased by Critical Strike value/10.
Last edited by mikeprichard on Fri Jul 19, 2019 3:26 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Teralitha
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Re: Do "Critical Strike" skill affect Damage?

Post by Teralitha » Fri Jul 19, 2019 3:24 pm

its more like something that needs to be fixed, rather than modded.

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