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Re: Do "Critical Strike" skill affect Damage?

Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2019 3:35 pm
by mikeprichard
Teralitha wrote:
Fri Jul 19, 2019 3:34 pm
Well he has already made many changes to the classic game. I think he means he is sticking to the "core" gameplay, not every minute detail. To be fair, I think an argument could be made that having crits could make combat pretty crazy, especially if the AI can do it to you. Maybe thats why the devs didnt do it in the final product.
Although there's of course subjectivity here, changing how a skill fundamentally works seems pretty "core" - even if it would make more sense to some of us. And yes, it would have a non-trivial effect on balance. I very strongly doubt he'll change this, but his call.

Anyway, gotta go do something non-DFU-y.

Re: Do "Critical Strike" skill affect Damage?

Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2019 3:41 pm
by Teralitha
And here we are, years later, discovering that the original devs changed critical strike at the last minute, making it into a pointless skill, but the masses were none the wiser, til now...

I can see the wisdom in that now though, I can only imagine how the game would be if every enemy in the game was hitting me with crits all the time. Probably better to leave it alone.

I will start over a new game without critical strike skill(cuz I always took it), and see if there is any actual difference.

Re: Do "Critical Strike" skill affect Damage?

Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2019 3:46 pm
by BansheeXYZ
mikeprichard wrote:
Fri Jul 19, 2019 3:31 pm
It's a case where Interkarma would have to decide to follow what the manual says the game should do vs. what the game actually did. I would also prefer the former, but would understand the latter given Interkarma's DFU design philosophy since the very beginning.
I mean... it's not just the manual. Literally that's what the term means everywhere it's used. And it's not like the manual just says a number that's slightly off or something, like some minor typo. It literally goes out of it's way to tell you that it doesn't affect accuracy, and then in the game that's all it does.

If IK wants to keep the bug for balance or nostalgia reasons, fine. But let's not pretend it's not one the way we did with Charm Mortal. Behavior doesn't equate to intent. If that were true, falling into the void and every other bug was intended.

Re: Do "Critical Strike" skill affect Damage?

Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2019 3:47 pm
by mikeprichard
BansheeXYZ wrote:
Fri Jul 19, 2019 3:46 pm
mikeprichard wrote:
Fri Jul 19, 2019 3:31 pm
It's a case where Interkarma would have to decide to follow what the manual says the game should do vs. what the game actually did. I would also prefer the former, but would understand the latter given Interkarma's DFU design philosophy since the very beginning.
I mean... it's not just the manual. Literally that's what the term means everywhere it's used.
Yes, that's what the term means in most other games.

Re: Do "Critical Strike" skill affect Damage?

Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2019 10:15 pm
by Interkarma
TheLacus wrote:
Fri Jul 19, 2019 2:54 pm
If critical strike is applied successfully, it increases the chance that hit is successful. This is what the code above does ;)
This is exactly right. It's a very simple bit of code.

As far as I'm aware, the to hit calculation formula, of which critical strike is a part, was directly reverse engineered from classic by Allofich.

Re: Do "Critical Strike" skill affect Damage?

Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2019 11:27 pm
by Teralitha
Yeah but um... how again does a crit strike get triggered? Oh wait... by a successful hit. So, if the purpose is to increase hit chance, but it can only be triggered by a successful hit... Yeeeeeeaaaahhhhh......... do you see what Im getting at? Its called redundancy. Its a simple code alright, just a useless one.

"I have to hit it, before I can hit it."
"did you get a hit?"
"yes I did"
"but was it a critical strike?"
"maybe, what does that do?"
"Nothing. Absolutely nothing"

Re: Do "Critical Strike" skill affect Damage?

Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2019 11:42 pm
by mikeprichard
Teralitha wrote:
Fri Jul 19, 2019 11:27 pm
Yeah but um... how again does a crit strike get triggered? Oh wait... by a successful hit. So, if the purpose is to increase hit chance, but it can only be triggered by a successful hit... Yeeeeeeaaaahhhhh......... do you see what Im getting at? Its called redundancy. Its a simple code alright, just a useless one.

"I have to hit it, before I can hit it."
"did you get a hit?"
"yes I did"
"but was it a critical strike?"
"maybe, what does that do?"
"Nothing. Absolutely nothing"
No, again, the skill has a "skill value" % chance of triggering. So if you have a 50% Critical Strike skill, then each time you attack an enemy, you have a 50% chance of adding 50/10% (i.e. 5%) to your overall hit chance to actually hit the enemy. In other words, the skill isn't triggered after a successful hit - it's triggered when you initially swing your weapon to help determine the odds of the successful hit.

Re: Do "Critical Strike" skill affect Damage?

Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2019 11:49 pm
by Teralitha
mikeprichard wrote:
Fri Jul 19, 2019 11:42 pm
No, again, the skill has a "skill value" % chance of triggering. So if you have a 50% Critical Strike skill, then each time you attack an enemy, you have a 50% chance of adding 50/10% (i.e. 5%) to your overall hit chance to actually strike the enemy. In other words, the skill isn't triggered after a successful hit - it's triggered when you initially swing your weapon to help determine the odds of the successful hit.
Hmmm... so I misunderstood the code. I think I get it. So a 100% critical strike skill only gives you a +10% to hit? Kinda weak for a maxed out skill. Kind of a wasted skill slot for one of your main 6.. but at least its not "nothing." As you already know, the game manual says it supposed to be extra damage, and they probably changed it at the last minute for balance reasons.

Re: Do "Critical Strike" skill affect Damage?

Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2019 11:51 pm
by mikeprichard
Teralitha wrote:
Fri Jul 19, 2019 11:49 pm
Hmmm... so I misunderstood the code. I think I get it. So a 100% critical strike skill only gives you a +10% to hit? Kinda weak for a maxed out skill. Kind of a wasted skill slot for one of your main 6.. but at least its not "nothing." As you already know, the game manual says it supposed to be extra damage, and they probably changed it at the last minute for balance reasons.
Yes, but looks like you have it now. It is kind of a crap skill IMO - as mentioned earlier, that's what Agility and Weapon skills are for. It does have at least some gameplay use as a faction skill, I guess.

Re: Do "Critical Strike" skill affect Damage?

Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2019 11:54 pm
by Teralitha
So the big question now is, will it be that way for DFU 1.0? Or will it get changed to be in line with the manual.