Click to attack or not to click to attack

Discuss Daggerfall Unity and Daggerfall Tools for Unity.
Ommamar
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Re: Click to attack or not to click to attack

Post by Ommamar »

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Last edited by Ommamar on Sat Apr 18, 2020 2:30 am, edited 1 time in total.

BansheeXYZ
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Re: Click to attack or not to click to attack

Post by BansheeXYZ »

NoobioDF wrote: Sat Jul 20, 2019 1:50 am Here is my concern with the click to attack option. When you use the mouse swing, you pick which of basically three swings you will do. A slash across, a chop downwards, and a thrust forward.
I'm not really sure why thrusts aren't part of the click-to-swing repertoire, other than maybe it is the least aesthetically pleasing swing animation. Combat in Dfall isn't all that strategic even with the original "choose-your-own-swing" mechanic. Also, it's actually fairly impossible to "choose" in practice. Go ahead and try making 20 quick thrusts in a row with a high SPD character. You'll end up chopping down by mistake half the time because there's no way to time your own mouse movements to perfectly align with the end of the animation. It was an interesting idea, but disorienting and unreliable, and the lower your SPD was, the worse it was due to how long the swing animation locked you out of mouselook.

And maybe the best part of click-to-attack is that we can enjoy watching other people play the game on youtube without seeing the screen shake wildly on every combat swing. I remember having to argue hard for this feature and now it's on the front page of the options screen. It's made the game much less frustrating for me and I'm sure many others.

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pango
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Re: Click to attack or not to click to attack

Post by pango »

For me personally mouse swing is part of Daggerfall experience, and for its immersion value alone that's what I use (along with mouse view).
It requires some coordination and some practice, but it's fine, combat requiring some coordination seems appropriate.

Pressing the button just the time of the swing is the recipe for disaster. The main trick is to embrace locked view and actually not release the right mouse button between swings, so the view stays stable. As the enemy moves around, you have to choose between using strafing to stay in the correct relative position, or to briefly release the mouse button to adjust view direction. This is something that becomes totally painless with practice.
When a measure becomes a target, it ceases to be a good measure.
-- Charles Goodhart

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King of Worms
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Re: Click to attack or not to click to attack

Post by King of Worms »

I personally dont use the click to attack option, I like it the old way, the way Im used to it. Its a part of Daggerfalls charm to me.
Some other oldskool things Ive changed to more modern, like the bigger inventory (u see 16 items instead of 4) but the attack style will remain the old way for me.

With advanced combat Ai it get harder, but also in a DFU the movement is much more easy and fluid than in the 1996 original, so it compensates for it.

So to me its the oldskool way in this case ;)

Teralitha
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Re: Click to attack or not to click to attack

Post by Teralitha »

King of Worms wrote: Sat Jul 20, 2019 2:29 pm I personally dont use the click to attack option, I like it the old way, the way Im used to it. Its a part of Daggerfalls charm to me.
Some other oldskool things Ive changed to more modern, like the bigger inventory (u see 16 items instead of 4) but the attack style will remain the old way for me.

With advanced combat Ai it get harder, but also in a DFU the movement is much more easy and fluid than in the 1996 original, so it compensates for it.

So to me its the oldskool way in this case ;)
The thing is... its actually not like the old way.

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King of Worms
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Re: Click to attack or not to click to attack

Post by King of Worms »

Is it not? Hmm, why so?

Teralitha
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Re: Click to attack or not to click to attack

Post by Teralitha »

In classic you hold down the mouse button to attack and are still able to move and turn freely while doing so. That is not the case in DFU. Holding down the mouse key to attack locks your ability to turn. While it may still technically work, its less intuitive than the classic version. I found it to be quite bothersome and switched to the insta click version. It too was a little awkward since I wasnt used to it, but now I am and its better this way.

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pango
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Re: Click to attack or not to click to attack

Post by pango »

I guess KoW and I both used WASD + mouse look in classic. The corollary is that we never used the keyboard for turning, only forward/backward and strafing. Just like in DFU now.
To better emulate classic, DFU should lock mouse look while swing button is pressed, but not turning using the keyboard...
When a measure becomes a target, it ceases to be a good measure.
-- Charles Goodhart

Teralitha
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Re: Click to attack or not to click to attack

Post by Teralitha »

But mouse look is not locked in classic. At least it isnt for me. Unless we are thinking of 2 different things. Well, I use keyboard for turning. Perhaps thats the difference.

Actually I rarely use strafing. The only time I strafe is when peeking around corners. And even then I rarely do that. I use the up/down/left/right arrow keys in classic and mouse for attack swings.. in DFU I now just use up/down arrow keys for forward/backward movement, and use the mouse for turning and attacking. I find this to be much easier to do. I dont think we need to have DFU be exactly like classic for the controls. Even classic has different control options.

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King of Worms
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Re: Click to attack or not to click to attack

Post by King of Worms »

pango wrote: Sat Jul 20, 2019 4:40 pm I guess KoW and I both used WASD + mouse look in classic. The corollary is that we never used the keyboard for turning, only forward/backward and strafing. Just like in DFU now.
To better emulate classic, DFU should lock mouse look while swing button is pressed, but not turning using the keyboard...
Yes WSAD and mouselook. Thats why to me it feels the same as original.

I was never able to swing and turn at the same time in original, because to swing u press RMB and move the mouse to do that swing, and at that moment, mouse look is disabled (quite obviously)

Maybe I dont understand it corectly, but my guess is the different perception stems from the different control schemes we were using back than - as Pango said.

Anyway, Im up for a new things, so if u guys come up with something better than what we have now, than great

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