Shields Material vs Shield Armor Rating

Discuss Daggerfall Unity and Daggerfall Tools for Unity.
Teralitha
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Shields Material vs Shield Armor Rating

Post by Teralitha » Wed Jul 24, 2019 6:25 pm

Ive noticed that armor has gotten a boost in armor ratings for better materials in DFU.(Because of a display glitch, the actual armor rating wasnt changed) But shields dont make sense. A leather kite shield weighs less, is worth less gold and gives +3 armor. An elven kite shield weighs more, is worth more and still only gives +3 armor. I looked at that and chuckled. Of course this is how it is in classic, but I never knew before since we couldnt see the material of the shield.

Will shields get fixed?
Last edited by Teralitha on Fri Jul 26, 2019 3:44 am, edited 9 times in total.

Firebrand
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Re: Shields Material vs Armor Rating

Post by Firebrand » Thu Jul 25, 2019 6:28 pm

I always find it odd too. IIRC, in classic Daggerfall shield didn't get damaged, but in DFU they does. In both, they have very poor Armor Rating compared to other pieces of Armor and to their weight, but at least in Classic they may help you to reduce the damage to the rest of your Armor (I suppose that Armor made by expensive materials will also be expensive to repair :? ).

I think that not having material boost armor rating for shield make single handed weapons a poor choice compared to two-handed weapons. Why should I use a Longsword, instead of a Dai-Katana, if the Shield give me a barely noticeable +1-+4 to my Armor Rating?

This is the first Elder Scrolls in which I find is better to use two-handed weapons... :lol:

Ommamar
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Re: Shields Material vs Armor Rating

Post by Ommamar » Thu Jul 25, 2019 8:43 pm

I agree that the higher the material the more armor class a shield should block. I would also like to see a shield skill that is passive like dodge that would reduce or on a high roll totally negate damage of a successful hit.

The reason to use a shield in the current system has to do with the item enchantment system so if you aren't going to utilize that system then the extra damage of a two handed weapon far outweighs the use of a shield. If you are going to utilize that system, which will only really come into effect after you get enough faction with the mage guild or the one temple that offers it. You will want to find the highest material level kite shield you can, the reason is that system is tied to the item type and the material used. In example a admantium (sp?) kite shield will offer many more options with a higher buff level to be placed on it then a leather kite shield.

Teralitha
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Re: Shields Material vs Armor Rating

Post by Teralitha » Thu Jul 25, 2019 9:36 pm

It may already be on their to do list, but atm I couldnt find any topics related to it.

johnwax
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Re: Shields Material vs Armor Rating

Post by johnwax » Thu Jul 25, 2019 10:46 pm

Some time ago, I posted a similar note about shields. My gripe was that the armor value of a given shield was fixed, regardless of the material type - e.g. all tower shields were +4 whether they were leather or daedric (same as in classic). Only the color changed to indicate material. I believe the shield armor value should go up with better materials and had suggested a range. Don't remember what that was, but maybe something like - topping out at +10 for tower, +8 for kite, +6 for round and +4 for buckler. This would make shields much more attractive to armor with and would justify the extra cost for better materials.

Teralitha
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Re: Shields Material vs Armor Rating

Post by Teralitha » Thu Jul 25, 2019 11:45 pm

Logically it doesnt make much sense for any shield to be made out of leather. I think this was something they cut corners on in development. They consider shields to be armor, and since we have leather armor, we also get leather shields, rather than having its own mechanic like weapons do. We dont have leather weapons, for example.

Had the devs had more time, maybe they would have given shields their own proper mechanic and material/armor rankings. As it is, it looks like they maybe cut a corner to save time and money But time isnt something we appear to be constrained by here. So... perhaps shields could get their proper implementation with DFU.

As for suggestion. I would first set a base armor rating for each shield size, then add for the higher materials. We dont have to have every kind of material for shields.

1. Iron. Iron could be left out.
2. Steel. All shields could start out as steel, and give no bonus, and have a base reasonable weight.
3. Silver. Silver as a shield would be impractical, so we can leave that one out also.
4. Elven. Elven could be +0 but be lighter than steel.
5. Dwarven could be +1 but be heavier than steel.
6. Adamantium. can be +2 but same weight as steel.
7. Mitrhil could be +2 but be same weight as elven..
8. Ebony. +3 and be heavier than or equal to dwarven.
9. Orcish. +3 and be same weight as steel.
10. Daedric. +4 and same weight as dwarven, or heavier.

Base armor amounts and weight disparity can be the same as classic.

1. Bucker +1 1.25 weight for steel.
2. Round +2, 2.25 weight for steel
3. Kite +3, 3.75 weight for steel.
4. Tower +4 6.75 weight for steel.

Elven could be like -25% of the weight of steel. Dwarven could be +50% weight of steel. Daedric x2 the weight of steel.

If durability is a factor,(I dont know if it is or how much) then of course you would adjust those per material also.

What do you think.
Last edited by Teralitha on Fri Jul 26, 2019 3:28 am, edited 2 times in total.

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mikeprichard
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Re: Shields Material vs Armor Rating

Post by mikeprichard » Fri Jul 26, 2019 1:21 am

What exactly were the changes made to armor to "boost" their ratings in DFU vs. classic? I can't recall or find specifics.

Teralitha
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Re: Shields Material vs Armor Rating

Post by Teralitha » Fri Jul 26, 2019 1:31 am

Iron and steel armor had their ratings increased from classic, in DFU. Steel armor had a rating of 4, now its 7. Just one example. Not sure about higher material ratings since I havent gotten that far.
Last edited by Teralitha on Fri Jul 26, 2019 2:09 am, edited 1 time in total.

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mikeprichard
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Re: Shields Material vs Armor Rating

Post by mikeprichard » Fri Jul 26, 2019 1:57 am

Teralitha wrote:
Fri Jul 26, 2019 1:31 am
Iron and steel armor had their ratings increased from classic, in DFU. Steel armor had a rating of 4, now its 7. Just one example.
So the "Armor Material" table at the UESP:Armor page is wrong too? The UESP page indicates steel's rating modifier in classic was +9, not +4. (https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Daggerfall:Armor) I already knew UESP was less reliable for Arena and Daggerfall than the later TES games, but it seems it's worse than I thought.

Teralitha
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Re: Shields Material vs Armor Rating

Post by Teralitha » Fri Jul 26, 2019 2:11 am

I never saw the wiki before on armor ratings. I dont know where those ratings come from, but Iam going off what I see while playing classic. Sorry I meant Iron is +7, steel apparently is +9 acccording to wiki.

I have my classic game open right now and I started a new game a little bit ago. I started the game with an iron left pauldron and its armor rating is +3. Do you need a screenshot?

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