What class are giants considered in DFU?

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Ommamar
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Joined: Thu Jul 18, 2019 3:08 am

What class are giants considered in DFU?

Post by Ommamar » Sat Jul 27, 2019 10:00 pm

In classic it appears that giants are classed as monsters which would make them unable to be pacified using a spell is this the same in DFU? How about Orcs, they have their own class identifier in classic but I always thought of them as humanoid but pretty sure they fall into the unpacifiable by spell category? Are Werebeasts considered animals for the pacify spell categories?

As you might of guessed one of my builds is a pacifist type of build, it is very challenging to play. I didn't start in Privateer's Hold as there is only a few loose loot piles so it wouldn't really benefit me to go through it as my strategy would be to run for the exit. I am trying to decide if sleep could be considered as part of his scope as it is destruction but doesn't do any permanent damage. Right now I am pretty much limited to cast sleep on someone or deliver a package/person to some where.

Teralitha
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Re: What class are giants considered in DFU?

Post by Teralitha » Sun Jul 28, 2019 5:36 am

You could drain their speed or agility. They either cant move, or cant hit you(except with ranged) and drain is permanent. Most enemies will only have 100 max attributes, except for the most powerful ones like ancient liches who have 200 int.

Ommamar
Posts: 334
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Re: What class are giants considered in DFU?

Post by Ommamar » Sun Jul 28, 2019 3:49 pm

Or I could use paralyze to get by them, I am just starting this build and role playing an honest citizen which means money is tight. I was trying to see how useful my pacify spells would be in certain situations involving things that have a humanoid appearance but aren't considered as such in classic Daggerfall but might be effected differently in DFU.

One interesting thing I noticed is that my Etiquette skill can pacify certain enemies as I got a message yesterday saying I had pacified a sorcerer with etiquette; I wonder if Streetwise works on things like rogues and bards.

Another thing I am curious about is if I dispel an undead enemy does the give credit for the exorcist quest you get from temples?

Teralitha
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Re: What class are giants considered in DFU?

Post by Teralitha » Sun Jul 28, 2019 5:02 pm

Honest citizen? Money Tight? Does not compute... I typically am an honest citizen but never have money problems. Im always stuffing gold into my wagon til I can get to a bank. How are you having money issues from being an honest citizen?

Whats your luck attribute?

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Interkarma
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Re: What class are giants considered in DFU?

Post by Interkarma » Sun Jul 28, 2019 10:01 pm

Giants are grouped as a Humanoid monster. You can use Pacify Humanoid on Giants, provided the spell chance succeeds and they don't resist the spell (and you don't attack them afterwards). I just took this for a spin to test and pacified giant on second attempt.

When it comes to humanoid classes (Warrior, Nightblade, etc.) the Charm spell is required instead. It's a bit of a confusing setup in classic to be sure, especially as the Charm description seems for a completely different spell.

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mikeprichard
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Re: What class are giants considered in DFU?

Post by mikeprichard » Sun Jul 28, 2019 10:10 pm

I know this has been discussed a few times before, and sorry if something is already in the works that I didn't see, but any plans to fix up the Charm vs. Pacify Humanoid descriptions for clarity?

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Interkarma
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Re: What class are giants considered in DFU?

Post by Interkarma » Sun Jul 28, 2019 10:13 pm

I have no plans for this on my end. Effects are modable either by addition or replacement, this is something the mod community can tackle if they want to.

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mikeprichard
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Re: What class are giants considered in DFU?

Post by mikeprichard » Sun Jul 28, 2019 10:18 pm

Alrighty - thanks for the reply.

Ommamar
Posts: 334
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Re: What class are giants considered in DFU?

Post by Ommamar » Sun Jul 28, 2019 11:04 pm

Teralitha wrote:
Sun Jul 28, 2019 5:02 pm
Honest citizen? Money Tight? Does not compute... I typically am an honest citizen but never have money problems. Im always stuffing gold into my wagon til I can get to a bank. How are you having money issues from being an honest citizen?

Whats your luck attribute?
Try doing no combat so anything you get from a dungeon is on the ground or scavenging from a kill another enemy caused. At the moment I have tried a go find this component for the mage guild but usually ends poorly so sticking to things like cast sleep on so and so, deliver this package, try and find this person or escort them somewhere. It is interesting to play as it tightens up what you get loot wise if you don't go the thievery route.
Interkarma wrote:
Sun Jul 28, 2019 10:01 pm
Giants are grouped as a Humanoid monster. You can use Pacify Humanoid on Giants, provided the spell chance succeeds and they don't resist the spell (and you don't attack them afterwards). I just took this for a spin to test and pacified giant on second attempt.

When it comes to humanoid classes (Warrior, Nightblade, etc.) the Charm spell is required instead. It's a bit of a confusing setup in classic to be sure, especially as the Charm description seems for a completely different spell.
Thanks Interkarma! I didn't know that as I thought charm was just a spell that increased your standing with the target for information delving but I will look in the spell maker for the actual charm category. So does that use the personality attribute and etiquette/streetwise skills? I get messages often on this build that etiquette/streetwise has pacified something, which I haven't seen on other builds. How about Orcs? Are they classed as a humanoid monster in DFU? Werebeasts?

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Interkarma
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Re: What class are giants considered in DFU?

Post by Interkarma » Mon Jul 29, 2019 12:08 am

Language skills like Streetwise use the relevant skill and Personality attribute to calculate chance of success. For magical enhancement of NPCs reactions, try enchanting items with "Good Rep" or get your hands on the Masque of Clavicus. These can be really helpful for speaking with the population of towns.

Orcs are a Humanoid monster, same with werebeasts. The full breakdown is below for convenience. :)

Code: Select all

	    switch (careerIndex)
            {
                case (int)MonsterCareers.Rat:
                case (int)MonsterCareers.GiantBat:
                case (int)MonsterCareers.GrizzlyBear:
                case (int)MonsterCareers.SabertoothTiger:
                case (int)MonsterCareers.Spider:
                case (int)MonsterCareers.Slaughterfish:
                case (int)MonsterCareers.GiantScorpion:
                case (int)MonsterCareers.Dragonling:
                case (int)MonsterCareers.Horse_Invalid:             // (grouped as undead in classic)
                case (int)MonsterCareers.Dragonling_Alternate:      // (grouped as undead in classic)
                    return DFCareer.EnemyGroups.Animals;
                case (int)MonsterCareers.Imp:
                case (int)MonsterCareers.Spriggan:
                case (int)MonsterCareers.Orc:
                case (int)MonsterCareers.Centaur:
                case (int)MonsterCareers.Werewolf:
                case (int)MonsterCareers.Nymph:
                case (int)MonsterCareers.OrcSergeant:
                case (int)MonsterCareers.Harpy:
                case (int)MonsterCareers.Wereboar:
                case (int)MonsterCareers.Giant:
                case (int)MonsterCareers.OrcShaman:
                case (int)MonsterCareers.Gargoyle:
                case (int)MonsterCareers.OrcWarlord:
                case (int)MonsterCareers.Dreugh:                    // (grouped as undead in classic)
                case (int)MonsterCareers.Lamia:                     // (grouped as undead in classic)
                    return DFCareer.EnemyGroups.Humanoid;
                case (int)MonsterCareers.SkeletalWarrior:
                case (int)MonsterCareers.Zombie:                    // (grouped as animal in classic)
                case (int)MonsterCareers.Ghost:
                case (int)MonsterCareers.Mummy:
                case (int)MonsterCareers.Wraith:
                case (int)MonsterCareers.Vampire:
                case (int)MonsterCareers.VampireAncient:
                case (int)MonsterCareers.Lich:
                case (int)MonsterCareers.AncientLich:
                    return DFCareer.EnemyGroups.Undead;
                case (int)MonsterCareers.FrostDaedra:
                case (int)MonsterCareers.FireDaedra:
                case (int)MonsterCareers.Daedroth:
                case (int)MonsterCareers.DaedraSeducer:
                case (int)MonsterCareers.DaedraLord:
                    return DFCareer.EnemyGroups.Daedra;
                case (int)MonsterCareers.FireAtronach:
                case (int)MonsterCareers.IronAtronach:
                case (int)MonsterCareers.FleshAtronach:
                case (int)MonsterCareers.IceAtronach:
                    return DFCareer.EnemyGroups.None;

                default:
                    return DFCareer.EnemyGroups.None;
            }

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