Spell Absorption: how does it work?

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Firebrand
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Spell Absorption: how does it work?

Post by Firebrand » Fri Aug 02, 2019 8:28 pm

I'm a bit confused about Spell Absorption. First of all, I know that by that name we have:
  • a Class Special Advantage, with three variants: General, in Light and in Darkness.
  • a Restoration Spell - which as a chance to succed.
My current character has got Spell Absorption General, but nonetheless had been sometime victim of spells like Silence or Wizard's Fire or Toxic Cloud. So, I'm thinking about two possible answers:
1. It could be that Spell Absorption General has a chance to succeed. I remember Zarik Zhakaron in a Youtube Stream of classic Daggerfall said that the chance for Spell Absorption Class Special Advantage is (INT + WIL)/2, but it may be just a myth like the damage from Critical Strike :lol:
2. It could be that Spell Absorption General always succeed, provided that you have a sufficiently large depleted magicka pool to absorb all the cost of casting the spell you are targeted by. For example, if you have 100 magicka out of 200, and you are targeted by a spell which cost 80, you should be always able to absorb it.

Which of the two? Or the correct answer is another one? :?

Also: provided that the Spell Absorption Restoration Spell is casted succesfully, from there on, is it identical (for the duration of the effect) to the Class Special Advantage with the same name? :?

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Interkarma
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Re: Spell Absorption: how does it work?

Post by Interkarma » Fri Aug 02, 2019 9:47 pm

Spell Absorption will return the spell point cost of an incoming spell to your spell point pool. You must have enough free spell points to absosrb the spell. For example, if spell will return 20 spell points, you must have at least 20 spell points free. If you only have 19 spell points free it will not be absorbed.

Class-based absorption is always active and has no qualifiers besides the spell point rule above.

Spell-based absorption is only active when cast and must also pass a dice roll (based on Chance of spell) in addition to spell point rule above. The Chance here is not rolled when spell is cast, but for each attempt to absorb. Even if you have the spell points, you might absorb one spell and not another.

Can confirm Willpower is not involved in either type of absorption. :)

Firebrand
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Re: Spell Absorption: how does it work?

Post by Firebrand » Fri Aug 02, 2019 10:37 pm

Thanks, it's very clear :)

I've to say, I've never seen a game with so many false ongoing myths for decades like Daggerfall :lol: :lol: :lol:

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mikeprichard
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Re: Spell Absorption: how does it work?

Post by mikeprichard » Fri Aug 02, 2019 10:41 pm

Yeah, as I mentioned elsewhere, the hard work done by the DFU devs is only now shining light on Daggerfall mechanics that were just guessed at for decades based on unreliable game documentation and anecdotal in-game testing. It's great to finally be figuring this stuff out. As evidenced by the many forum topics that have been cropping up from new DFU players recently, people do want to understand how things work.

Ommamar
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Re: Spell Absorption: how does it work?

Post by Ommamar » Fri Aug 02, 2019 11:11 pm

One thing I have noticed on my absorb magic builds is that spells like paralyze or silence don't get absorbed. My assumption is that while negative and debilitating they don't actually cause any damage on their own you simply can't move or cast a spell. You can test this by making an Area of Effect spell and cast it at your feet there will be no you absorb magic message like you get with a destruction or drain spell.

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Interkarma
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Re: Spell Absorption: how does it work?

Post by Interkarma » Sat Aug 03, 2019 12:21 am

I've limited this to damaging spells as that was my understanding of the mechanic at the time. In the case of Paralyze and Silence, they seem to fall more into the Immunity to Paralysis / Immunity to Element wheelhouses. You can still cast while Paralyzed though (e.g. you can cast Cure Paralysis or Free Action or any other spell,).

On a related subject, Daggerfall allows you to use many effects with any element in custom spells. You can make a Fire-based Paralyze spell or a Shock-based Silence spell. It's not clear if this is intended or not, but I ended up keeping as classic because I think it has some interesting gameplay possibilities that haven't been well explored.

For example, you could take Immunity To Fire special then build Fire-based mass-paralysis spell you can shoot at your own feet. Or build a targeted Frost-based paralysis spell to exploit the Dragonling, Dreugh, and Lamia's low tolerance to Frost so they are less likely to make their saving throw. There feels like some ways you can tinker at the extreme edges of min/maxing this way.

Teralitha
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Re: Spell Absorption: how does it work?

Post by Teralitha » Sat Aug 03, 2019 2:23 am

Spell absorbtion doesnt work 100% of the time. If it did, that would mean you were 100% immune to everything. That would be stupidly OP. I always understood it to mean that its a "chance" to absorb a spell.

I see that IK has apparently changed it from classic. I havent tried using spell absorbtion yet in DFU. Since he has changed the effect of the spell to only absorb damage spells, the name should be changed to reflect what it really does.

"Spell" absorb, to "damage" absorb, "element" absorb, or something similar.

Ommamar
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Re: Spell Absorption: how does it work?

Post by Ommamar » Sat Aug 03, 2019 2:45 am

Interkarma wrote:
Sat Aug 03, 2019 12:21 am
I've limited this to damaging spells as that was my understanding of the mechanic at the time. In the case of Paralyze and Silence, they seem to fall more into the Immunity to Paralysis / Immunity to Element wheelhouses. You can still cast while Paralyzed though (e.g. you can cast Cure Paralysis or Free Action or any other spell,).

On a related subject, Daggerfall allows you to use many effects with any element in custom spells. You can make a Fire-based Paralyze spell or a Shock-based Silence spell. It's not clear if this is intended or not, but I ended up keeping as classic because I think it has some interesting gameplay possibilities that haven't been well explored.

For example, you could take Immunity To Fire special then build Fire-based mass-paralysis spell you can shoot at your own feet. Or build a targeted Frost-based paralysis spell to exploit the Dragonling, Dreugh, and Lamia's low tolerance to Frost so they are less likely to make their saving throw. There feels like some ways you can tinker at the extreme edges of min/maxing this way.
That is devious interkarma might have to try it!

BansheeXYZ
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Re: Spell Absorption: how does it work?

Post by BansheeXYZ » Sat Aug 03, 2019 3:52 am

Interkarma wrote:
Sat Aug 03, 2019 12:21 am
It's not clear if this is intended or not, but I ended up keeping as classic because I think it has some interesting gameplay possibilities that haven't been well explored.
Since monsters never cast "fire" versions of silence and drain spells, and since no other game has given these sorts of spells elements, I'd say it's not intended. But it's really only a problem if someone were to eventually mod dfall into an crude mmorpg with pvp. If the opposing player can just make a 3-school spell that silences me with three different elements, that's too hard to defend and overpowered.

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Interkarma
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Re: Spell Absorption: how does it work?

Post by Interkarma » Sat Aug 03, 2019 4:43 am

BansheeXYZ wrote:
Sat Aug 03, 2019 3:52 am
Since monsters never cast "fire" versions of silence and drain spells
That's only because the Mages Guild doesn't invite them in to use the spellmaker. ;)

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