Melee fight

[ruthan]

Hello,
i always had mixed feeling about melee in Arena and Daggerfall - its great the you see weapon and could target attack direction, but problem is that you use looking during it.
I mean mouse look - i real life you can look and swing it different direction, in Arena a Daggerfall i always felt like a robot during fighting. Some shotting games like Unreal tourment had something like that see and shoot in different direction, i reality it could work with headset and head tracking, its is niche market.

Morrowind and later had combat byl much better just mouse cursor for targeting and classic mouse look, just like Hexen II with +mlook.

I dunno has Daggerfall something like enemies damage zones and local damage, if not direct swings would not big deal, even i it have it, i thing that something like different mouse buttons, keyboard keys modificators (stab, attack from behind, aft from left to right etc..), double click, longer mouse presses would be much better.

BTW which keyboard + mouse game has best 1st person combat? I remember that Dark Messiah of Might and Magic was good in that, but not especially good. Kingdoms Come fight wasnt bad too, but there were also some strange things? I played it long time ago.. was here for example options to hit multiple targets?

Why im writing about it, i would be nice to have non legacy fighting option, i played mode only a while, maybe something like it is already here.. But you can program it right, when you dont know how to design it and design is not simple how it could look.

[Hazelnut]

It takes some practice to get the hang of it, but once you do it's quite immersive. There is already a click to attack option for the young'ns and impatient though.

[Cliffworms]

Since each swing direction has different damage ratios and chance to hit, it can be a good strategy to swing your weapon depending on how the fight is faring.

For example, I often start my fights with vertical swings. They are not very accurate, but they will do much more damage. That can help turn a fight to my advantage at the start. If I'm on the verge of dying and no escape is possible, I'll do thrusts to get low-damage and high accuracy hits, hoping to kill my opponent before he does.

If I see a Vampire Ancient or an Ancient Lich, I just pray to the Divines.
(Do Ancient Liches still kill themselves with spells in Daggerfall Unity? It was my strategy in Classic... hoping they'd fireball themselves to death)

[ruthan]

I never completed Daggerfall, but i completed Arena and here i dont wasnt possiblity to look up and down (its long time), but i never got to used it.

[Teralitha]

It takes some practice to get the hang of it, but once you do it's quite immersive. There is already a click to attack option for the young'ns and impatient though.

Oh really. Im using it, but im not young or impatient. I just dont like the stuck mouse and will never find it "immersive" I preferred curser mode but DFU didnt incorporate that. Curser mode didnt have a stuck mouse and it made no sense to me why view mode did.

The One Click To Attack is just a 'quick fix' for not having curser mode, but doesnt allow for manual attack directions. Im still waiting for curser to be fully and properly incorporated. That or make it so click to attack has manual directions, which is the only issue I have with it.

[ruthan]

Otherwise here is Dark Messiah video:
[youtube]https://www.youtu.be/TWKRkhpFqhE[/youtube]

There are just fancy animation, a bit of physics and enviroment interaction and some powerful charging attack but.. because otherwise we can see only some 3rd theater i games from old ones with Severance: Blade of Darkness, Conan (Cauldron ones, it has some combos), Witcher, Gothic, Risen series, even overhyped Dark Souls has it.. Almost all of them have also locking oponent cheating system. From that point of view is system in Dark Message still good one.

I remember that even some targeting and visible weapons in Stonekeep was big improvement (im not totally young too).

Kingdom come system is quite sophisticated, but main problem is just that stupid locking, with stupid lock is everything easy.. but again good feel is lost and same as multiple target damage.
Other problem is that in this game you fight just with humans, when make sword play stem sense, but in Dagger you have zillions non human creatures, rats etc.
Example:
[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TWKRkhpFqhE[/youtube]

I played Mount and Blade quite and lot - hundreds of hours, but i dont really remember if there was something really good in meelee, there was some targeting - from which side you can attack and some piercing and power attack (which for me in every game felt stupid).
[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tKvP2VoqTvw[/youtube]

I dont care about dual welding because, i make thing again much complicated, in Skyrim is just hack and slash - just right and left hand attack, but shield for just generic one key block could work, same as some typical attack mode - when counter enemy attack for parry.

I never played Mordhau and Chivalry, but Mordhau looks very interesting first person lots of types of attacks and no lock, but again its only human vs human, but again it could be applicated to monsters too at least player moves and attack types. Only problem i have its that too easy semi universal blocking with sword..
[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hFnCsDnHV0A [/youtube]

I thing that some cursor targeting with optimal targeting keys (just pres it with attack key or before) for type of attack (from all 4 direction + piercing or pushing depends on weapon) would be probably the best of all quite easy to make.

[Ommamar]

It takes some practice to get the hang of it, but once you do it's quite immersive. There is already a click to attack option for the young'ns and impatient though.

Oh really. Im using it, but im not young or impatient. I just dont like the stuck mouse and will never find it "immersive" I preferred curser mode but DFU didnt incorporate that. Curser mode didnt have a stuck mouse and it made no sense to me why view mode did.

The One Click To Attack is just a 'quick fix' for not having curser mode, but doesnt allow for manual attack directions. Im still waiting for curser to be fully and properly incorporated. That or make it so click to attack has manual directions, which is the only issue I have with it.

One option I could see that is kind of in use already is combine Q and E as an option to choose what strike, if you just click it is the average but if you click + one of the choices you could choose to do a thrust or a chop. I have pulled of both attacks with click to attack but the average horizontal swing is the most common followed by chop then very rarely a thrust. Honestly though even when I used the standard system in classic I ended up with the horizontal most of the time. so not getting the full variance in attack isn't to noticeable and I am able to move around a lot more.