To buy or to make

Discuss Daggerfall Unity and Daggerfall Tools for Unity.
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Ommamar
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To buy or to make

Post by Ommamar » Sun Aug 25, 2019 3:35 am

I'm finding it is easier and better to buy my potions then to mess around with brewing, how does everyone else feel? I remember seeing somewhere, likely on UESP that you could strengthen the potions you made some how, so far I haven't figured out how to do that. Other then restore power the bought potions seem to heal me up well enough, I have no idea how much the resist potions raise your resistance but that is the only use I could see for making a more powerful potion.

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pango
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Re: To buy or to make

Post by pango » Sun Aug 25, 2019 9:35 am

I think I used the potion maker once to check how it works...
I haven't checked if it's actually cheaper to buy all the ingredients and go to a potion maker, or if it's only cheaper if you find the ingredients around. In any case it's so cumbersome that it doesn't feel worth the effort.
It could have some more value if you could brew potions on the field?
When a measure becomes a target, it ceases to be a good measure.
-- Charles Goodhart

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Hazelnut
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Re: To buy or to make

Post by Hazelnut » Sun Aug 25, 2019 10:52 am

I brew potions a lot with my playtest character. It's as simple as having the ingredients in wagon + recipes. Then open potion maker, select recipe and press mix button. Repeat.

So, what is it that is a pain? The location? The interface? Having enough ingredients?

I have basically grabbed ingredients in all the dungeon delving and the wagon is mostly full of them. I knew I wanted to test potions properly and would need the ingredients.

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pango
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Re: To buy or to make

Post by pango » Sun Aug 25, 2019 12:30 pm

If I remember correctly, the interface is okay; Once you have a recipe, brewing a potion is basically automatic, and it seems appropriate that having recipes is almost necessary.

So yes, ingredients and location. Also, somewhat lackluster gameplay, but the fact some ingredients can be used for several potions changed my mind (see added comments between parens).
  • To brew a potion you need all the required ingredients, usually 3 or 4 from what I've seen. Given you find ingredients randomly, and that they're a lot of different ingredients, it may take a while before you have all the ingredients for the specific potions you want. Or eventually buy the ones you didn't manage to find; Again, I haven't checked if that's worth it, but I remember the ingredients to be quite expensive.
  • no special benefits. As far as I know, you can create spells that have the same effects as the potions you can buy so they're a big deal only for non-casters; and you can't brew potions you can't also buy. Ommamar talk above of the possibility to brew more potent potions, I don't know if such thing exists.
  • You have to go back to a potion maker to brew potions, so beside the inconvenience, ingredients you collected will never save your ass in the dungeon you're in, only indirectly in the next dungeons. They lack in drama. (but given you have to decide what to brew before dungeon delving, it has some gameplay elements to it)
  • You can't sell unused potions, only unused ingredients, so alchemy is not a source of income either; only useful for your own personal potion needs. (okay, it could prevent players from brewing potions they don't plan to use, again it has some gameplay value)
  • Each ingredient is only useful for one recipe. So even if the two bullets above were fixed, there would be no reason not to brew potions as soon as you have all the required ingredients. If at least some ingredients were useful for several potions, then crafting would be somewhat interesting. Right now it's only another thing you must not forget to do while you're in town. (Nectar, Fig, Red berries, Pine branch, Diamond, Ectoplasm, Pure water, Rain water, Ichor and Elixir Vitae... ingredients are used in several potions. UESP page is lacking, what's a good source about recipes?)
Last edited by pango on Sun Aug 25, 2019 1:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
When a measure becomes a target, it ceases to be a good measure.
-- Charles Goodhart

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Jaiysaun
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Re: To buy or to make

Post by Jaiysaun » Sun Aug 25, 2019 1:41 pm

Daggerfall could really use a mod that adds in new recipes or gives ingredients a new purpose. I always seem to end up with a bunch of ingredients and a bunch of recipes, but rarely do they match up, so I'm always carrying piles of useless ingredients I'm hesitant to sell because "What if they're useful?" Unlike alchemy in future games though, experimenting with different formulas has never yielded results.

Firebrand
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Re: To buy or to make

Post by Firebrand » Sun Aug 25, 2019 3:02 pm

Also, it's really, really strange that nobody in the Iliac Bay is interested in buying potions from you, considering how difficult it is to buy them from the guilds :?

If you could sell potions for a price superior to the ingredients (like in the following entries of the Elder Scrolls), at least brewing potions could become a source of income. A kind of job that not involve killing anyone :lol: 8-)

Ommamar
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Re: To buy or to make

Post by Ommamar » Sun Aug 25, 2019 4:08 pm

Jaiysaun wrote:
Sun Aug 25, 2019 1:41 pm
Daggerfall could really use a mod that adds in new recipes or gives ingredients a new purpose. I always seem to end up with a bunch of ingredients and a bunch of recipes, but rarely do they match up, so I'm always carrying piles of useless ingredients I'm hesitant to sell because "What if they're useful?" Unlike alchemy in future games though, experimenting with different formulas has never yielded results.
This has been my experience as well, I usually have a lot of a certain type but have to go search for that one item. There is also only a few potions that I find truly useful so since you can't sell them I feel you end up carrying around a bunch of ingredients that aren't of any use to you. You can sell them of course but that hoarder in me is always hesitant to do that.

I think this was what I was thinking about when I mentioned the more powerful potions, but since it is regarding Morrowind not really relevant sorry about spreading misinformation. https://www.reddit.com/r/Morrowind/comm ... y_to_brew/

The motivation to start this thread was there has been discussion on a mod changing how the alchemy system works. One idea is that the potion maker would be swapped with the potion merchant as far as temple rank granting access. Another is that alchemists would sell potions at a lesser rate and higher price then temples, also that they would buy your potions as well as ingredients. The next change would be a recipe interface that would display similar to the magic item interface where you could select the recipe, get the required ingredients just by mousing over, and a mobile method that would allow you to make less effective potions in the wilderness/dungeon. The last would require yet more modification of the potions as at the moment it appears there is one level of potion you can make.

This will take some work so I wanted to see how others felt about the current system in a general topic.

Madae
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Re: To buy or to make

Post by Madae » Thu Aug 29, 2019 6:02 am

Jaiysaun wrote:
Sun Aug 25, 2019 1:41 pm
Daggerfall could really use a mod that adds in new recipes
What would you even add that isn't already there? We're not talking about a robust game here with a lot of stretching room with an abundance of different effects. You'd basically have to add all new spells, if you could even come up with anything that isn't already touched on. It's not just a simple process of more stuff. And then you gotta worry about balancing, and maybe change other things that are linked to it in a relevant way.

Ommamar
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Re: To buy or to make

Post by Ommamar » Thu Aug 29, 2019 4:33 pm

A couple things I could think to add is a more accessible way to access the recipes with the ability to bring up the needed components while in a shop. There is a couple ways to go about it you could make the text you get in information from a recipe stay on the screen while you are looking at a shelf. You could also have a pop up menu similar to what you get in information from a recipe show when you mouse over a ingredient.

A way to distill and dilute a potion to control the effectiveness of it this would be particularly helpful for potions that effect your resource pools. You may only be at half health so the question is do you use the potion of heal true or gamble that you will have enough time to access it in the next fight? If you could make a weaker version that will top you off from half health it alleviates that gamble, allowing you to think tactically what you want to carry with you. A related thing is the ability to assign an item to a hot key like you can in later games, this would speed up game play as you wouldn't have to cycle through one menu to find the potion needed at the time.

The ability to make poisons based of recipes taught at witches covens and the dark brotherhood would also add strategic thought to what you carry with you while also adding an alternative to continuous damage spells.

Potions and poisons able to be sold by players would open up the system to give a reason to collect ingredients and brew potions you wouldn't necessarily need. This also opens another way for a player to earn money other then questing and spelunking in dungeons or thieving from NPCs.

Firebrand
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Re: To buy or to make

Post by Firebrand » Fri Aug 30, 2019 9:49 am

Lots of good ideas ;)

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