Daggerfall Unity Wiki

Discuss Daggerfall Unity and Daggerfall Tools for Unity.
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mikeprichard
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Re: Daggerfall Unity Wiki

Post by mikeprichard » Tue Aug 13, 2019 4:11 am

Ommamar wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 3:56 am
So I guess that is the issue I am having are we making a DFU wiki or are we updating the UESP?
My understanding from Jay/Azteca (who can correct me if I'm wrong) is that the Google doc is for information unique to DFU that we'll want to update on the DFU-specific wiki.

As for the classic pages already on UESP, which also need some continued work, I've been collecting data across various topics throughout the forums here to help me update pages as needed (which is a separate process that I suggest should continue parallel to the work here on the DFU material), but certainly if you see anything on the classic pages that's clearly wrong or misleading (for classic and/or for both classic and DFU, but not for DFU only), please let me know here and I'll take a look when I can!

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Jay_H
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Re: Daggerfall Unity Wiki

Post by Jay_H » Tue Aug 13, 2019 4:21 am

mikeprichard wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 4:11 am
My understanding from Jay/Azteca (who can correct me if I'm wrong) is that the Google doc is for information unique to DFU that we'll want to update on the DFU-specific wiki.
Indeed. Correcting Daggerfall on the UESP is an important task but not our primary focus. I'm leaving the primary planning to Azteca since I'm not very good at long-term organization, but my biggest focus right now is gathering game-critical information like mod installation, game-breaking exploits, and so on -- the frequently asked questions. We can usually see their frequency on the forum and establish priorities for what people will first want to look up.
Come join the Unofficial Daggerfall Unity Discord.
See the Daggerfall Unity Wiki on the UESP.
Progress on fixing classic quests here.

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mikeprichard
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Re: Daggerfall Unity Wiki

Post by mikeprichard » Tue Aug 13, 2019 4:27 am

Thanks, Jay. And I just made the changes in the doc I had suggested to Ommamar (reorganized the Resistances notes, struck through the duplicative leveling/skills and class information) - please take a look.

It seems the biggest recurring areas of confusion (for future FAQ planning) new DFU players continually raise here are:

1) How resistances interact in DFU (change from classic, so DFU wiki material)
2) How Charm/Pacify spell effects work (no significant changes from classic?)
3) How stealth works (no significant changes from classic? - I recently updated the UESP Daggerfall:Stealth page to clarify movement speed's effects on Stealth, including how crouch/sneak "modes" work in relation to the Stealth skill)
4) Various problems with quests (no significant changes from classic? - locating hard-to-find quest items in dungeons/NPCs in palaces, figuring out how to kill critters in houses that don't immediately spawn for quests, etc.)

Just initial thoughts that I'm sure Jay already has a handle on given his tireless work across the forums for quite some time now.

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Jay_H
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Re: Daggerfall Unity Wiki

Post by Jay_H » Tue Aug 13, 2019 4:34 am

Uh oh, I hate being overestimated :lol:
mikeprichard wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 4:27 am
2) How Charm/Pacify spell effects work (no significant changes from classic?)
I have no experience with Charm and Pacify in classic, nor have seen anyone use them. That'll be something to test.
3) How stealth works (no significant changes from classic? - I recently updated the UESP Daggerfall:Stealth page to clarify movement speed's effects on Stealth, including how crouch/sneak "modes" work in relation to the Stealth skill)
Equal to classic. IIRC Interkarma said a stealth trigger occurs when you're near enemies moving at 50% or less speed, or in other words, walking. The stealth key is therefore redundant but functional. If I'm wrong about that specific detail, in any case he said it matches classic.
4) Various problems with quests (no significant changes from classic? - locating hard-to-find quest items in dungeons/NPCs in palaces, figuring out how to kill critters in houses that don't immediately spawn for quests, etc.)
I only know of one major difference regarding quest execution for now, with a rather unusual corner case where an item and a monster are supposed to spawn at the same place. DFU can't handle that yet but Interkarma intends to fix it when there's sufficient data on it. I don't think there'll be much to speak of regarding quests per se.

Quest mods will be a good section to carve out due to their unusual installation method, and some general Q&As regarding them, their difficulty level, common hang-ups while playing them, and so on.
Come join the Unofficial Daggerfall Unity Discord.
See the Daggerfall Unity Wiki on the UESP.
Progress on fixing classic quests here.

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mikeprichard
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Re: Daggerfall Unity Wiki

Post by mikeprichard » Tue Aug 13, 2019 4:47 am

I think the Charm/Pacify mechanics (identical to classic as far as I'm aware) have been clarified several times across the forums here, but I just wanted to flag this as something in both classic and DFU that players are repeatedly confused about. Same thing with quests, as you noted. Re: Stealth:
mikeprichard wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 4:27 am
3) How stealth works (no significant changes from classic? - I recently updated the UESP Daggerfall:Stealth page to clarify movement speed's effects on Stealth, including how crouch/sneak "modes" work in relation to the Stealth skill)
Jay_H wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 4:34 am
Equal to classic. IIRC Interkarma said a stealth trigger occurs when you're near enemies moving at 50% or less speed, or in other words, walking. The stealth key is therefore redundant but functional. If I'm wrong about that specific detail, in any case he said it matches classic.
I can't find anywhere that indicates Stealth isn't also active when you're running (see e.g. viewtopic.php?f=4&t=1831&start=10#p26824 - it's "always operational"), but if that is in fact the case, do you have a link to support it? I'd especially like to confirm this since I just updated the UESP classic page for Stealth indicating it's always active, but just more effective at slower movement speeds, which does include "stealth" and "crouch" modes as they slow the player further, as also discussed by IK in the topic linked just above.
Jay_H wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 4:34 am
Uh oh, I hate being overestimated :lol:
No pressure. :lol:

Ommamar
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Re: Daggerfall Unity Wiki

Post by Ommamar » Tue Aug 13, 2019 4:55 am

I will have no more involvement with this, good luck!

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mikeprichard
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Re: Daggerfall Unity Wiki

Post by mikeprichard » Tue Aug 13, 2019 5:06 pm

mikeprichard wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 4:27 am
3) How stealth works (no significant changes from classic? - I recently updated the UESP Daggerfall:Stealth page to clarify movement speed's effects on Stealth, including how crouch/sneak "modes" work in relation to the Stealth skill)
Jay_H wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 4:34 am
Equal to classic. IIRC Interkarma said a stealth trigger occurs when you're near enemies moving at 50% or less speed, or in other words, walking. The stealth key is therefore redundant but functional. If I'm wrong about that specific detail, in any case he said it matches classic.
mikeprichard wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 4:27 am
I can't find anywhere that indicates Stealth isn't also active when you're running (see e.g. viewtopic.php?f=4&t=1831&start=10#p26824 - it's "always operational"), but if that is in fact the case, do you have a link to support it? I'd especially like to confirm this since I just updated the UESP classic page for Stealth indicating it's always active, but just more effective at slower movement speeds, which does include "stealth" and "crouch" modes as they slow the player further, as also discussed by IK in the topic linked just above.
Briefly detouring into stealth mechanics again - is this (https://github.com/Interkarma/daggerfal ... es.cs#L573) the source of the 50% movement speed requirement you mentioned in order for Stealth to work at all? I have no idea how to correctly read this code, but what I'm trying to clearly determine is whether the Stealth skill is completely "deactivated" when running - i.e. whether it's only active when walking (which is what I think "playerMotor.IsMovingLessThanHalfSpeed" is referring to, given Jay's post above?), sneaking and/or crouching (both of which do slow the player). If this is the case, I'll need to tweak the UESP page again for classic/DFU.

EDIT: We can move this Stealth discussion to my new UESP classic topic here (viewtopic.php?f=4&t=2514).

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Deepfighter
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Re: Daggerfall Unity Wiki

Post by Deepfighter » Mon Aug 19, 2019 7:47 am

Just for all of you - we have now our own namespace at UESP, which means we can start to structure and put information there! :-)

As a first step I moved the current Daggerfall Unity page its new namespace: https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Tes2Mod:Daggerfall_Unity. New pages can be created by adding a backslash behind this page, e.g.:
Tes2Mod:Daggerfall Unity/Weapons
Tes2Mod:Daggerfall Unity/Modifications
Tes2Mod:Daggerfall Unity/Comparison to Classic Daggerfall
Don't hesitate to ask if there are questions, I will try to help out where possible and fix formatting errors, which are inevitable at the beginning. :)

Let's get that thing rolling!
Head of the German Daggerfall translation - www.daggerfalldeutsch.de
and German translator for The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim and Lore-Expert for The Elder Scrolls: Online

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Jay_H
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Re: Daggerfall Unity Wiki

Post by Jay_H » Tue Aug 20, 2019 6:11 pm

We're populating it with as much useful information as we can, as time permits. Here's what we've added so far today:

Installation instructions
Frequently asked technical questions
How DFU handles character creation differently
Other differences in DFU
How to install mods

We'll keep at it until it's got everything it should ;)
Come join the Unofficial Daggerfall Unity Discord.
See the Daggerfall Unity Wiki on the UESP.
Progress on fixing classic quests here.

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mikeprichard
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Re: Daggerfall Unity Wiki

Post by mikeprichard » Tue Aug 20, 2019 6:21 pm

Jay, those new pages are starting to shape up nicely already - great work! One specific content question re: this statement on the new DFU "Character Creation Differences" page: "In Daggerfall Unity, Agility has been rebalanced to prove far more important for combat odds." How exactly was it rebalanced? Or was it merely the case that a bug was fixed, such that Agility now actually modifies to-hit chance at the bonus of (attacker's Agility - target's Agility) / 10? If the latter, the text should probably be clarified accordingly. Also on that page, although I agree the "High Elves" topic is a major point, it should probably be placed more logically as a subset of "Resistances" - or at least the related topics should be grouped together on the page, with "Resistances" listed first instead of alphabetically, followed by the "High Elves" and "Immunity to Magicka" sections.

More importantly, although I don't know if the folks at UESP would be on board with this, I suggest that the DFU pages should be located in a much more prominent position on the main UESP page, given that practically anyone interested in Daggerfall content going forward (and I don't think that's an exaggeration) will be looking for DFU info specifically. E.g. something on the order of placing the main DFU page link on the left side of the UESP page as a direct subset of "Daggerfall" instead of buried under the misleading tag "Mods". If something like this isn't done, I think the wiki's general usefulness is going to be very much reduced.

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