Shadows settings
- King of Worms
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Shadows settings
Id just want to bring to the attention one thing Ive tested for a while and now Im 100% certain about it.
Thing is, that if you set your slider detail slider to the right, hoping for the best quality, in my opinion, you dont receive that. Because one setting lower looks better.
This change is IMO only about shadows, rest stays the same.
Modern games have - thanks god - got rid of the approach that the more defined shadows are, the better.
So now we have a bit softer - filtered - shadows, to give us more natural feel. This filtering comes with a performance hit, nothing big.
Now lets look at the maximum setting in daggerfall:
Hmm, so we have this super sharp shadow which looks very unrealistic.
Now, lets save us cca 5% of performance and lets move the slider to the left by one part: Yes, we get this nice, softer shadow and we free up some resources while doing so. Win win.
Another bad thing about the MAX detail is, that these super sharp shadows work only in very close range. So if you pay attention, you will see the dividing line cca 3m infront of you. Where this high res shadow changes in the softer one. This again is distracting, and this problem doesnt exist when you set the slider one bellow max.
SO
The bottom line is, that the not-maxed shadows look better, perform better, and you dont have a dividing line in between high res/lower res shadows in your face.
This leads me to the conclusion, that the max setting should be either somehow improved, or removed. Because in fact, its not the best quality. That setting does not make sense to me atm, unless Im missing something here.
Im open to discussion on this topic. As it is now, Im for the removal of this setting, because it simply does not look better IMO and costs some performance at the same time
Opinions?
Thing is, that if you set your slider detail slider to the right, hoping for the best quality, in my opinion, you dont receive that. Because one setting lower looks better.
This change is IMO only about shadows, rest stays the same.
Modern games have - thanks god - got rid of the approach that the more defined shadows are, the better.
So now we have a bit softer - filtered - shadows, to give us more natural feel. This filtering comes with a performance hit, nothing big.
Now lets look at the maximum setting in daggerfall:
Hmm, so we have this super sharp shadow which looks very unrealistic.
Now, lets save us cca 5% of performance and lets move the slider to the left by one part: Yes, we get this nice, softer shadow and we free up some resources while doing so. Win win.
Another bad thing about the MAX detail is, that these super sharp shadows work only in very close range. So if you pay attention, you will see the dividing line cca 3m infront of you. Where this high res shadow changes in the softer one. This again is distracting, and this problem doesnt exist when you set the slider one bellow max.
SO
The bottom line is, that the not-maxed shadows look better, perform better, and you dont have a dividing line in between high res/lower res shadows in your face.
This leads me to the conclusion, that the max setting should be either somehow improved, or removed. Because in fact, its not the best quality. That setting does not make sense to me atm, unless Im missing something here.
Im open to discussion on this topic. As it is now, Im for the removal of this setting, because it simply does not look better IMO and costs some performance at the same time
Opinions?
Last edited by King of Worms on Sat Oct 26, 2019 6:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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- BadLuckBurt
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Re: Shadows settings
I took your advice and knocked the slider down because I like blurry shadows. The slider itself is just standard Unity behaviour I think, lowering it reduces the shadow map resolution. Some people probably prefer supersharp shadows so I'd just leave it as is, maybe change the tooltip to explain what it does in more detail.
My bigger gripe is with the main graphics quality setting, 'Fantastic' I know it's a Unity thing but it doesn't tell me what it does at all, I'd definitely like more control over what is and isn't activated.
My bigger gripe is with the main graphics quality setting, 'Fantastic' I know it's a Unity thing but it doesn't tell me what it does at all, I'd definitely like more control over what is and isn't activated.
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- King of Worms
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Re: Shadows settings
I agree that some advanced options menu where you can customize these presets would be good.BadLuckBurt wrote: ↑Tue Oct 15, 2019 9:08 am I took your advice and knocked the slider down because I like blurry shadows. The slider itself is just standard Unity behaviour I think, lowering it reduces the shadow map resolution. Some people probably prefer supersharp shadows so I'd just leave it as is, maybe change the tooltip to explain what it does in more detail.
My bigger gripe is with the main graphics quality setting, 'Fantastic' I know it's a Unity thing but it doesn't tell me what it does at all, I'd definitely like more control over what is and isn't activated.
From what I have noticed, lower tiers of this setting remove VSYNC (uh?) it also somehow changes the grass (uh? grass is not even included in the base game), it reduces the shadow resolution and distances (thats ok, just the top setting looks bad as explained above) and rest is unknown to me.
It seems quite messy honestly
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- BadLuckBurt
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Re: Shadows settings
Google led me to a page where those presets could be configured in the Unity Editor so apparently they also depend on what the devs deem 'Fantastic' I'll just stick to that for now and hopefully we'll have some more control in the future.King of Worms wrote: ↑Tue Oct 15, 2019 9:34 am I agree that some advanced options menu where you can customize these presets would be good.
From what I have noticed, lower tiers of this setting remove VSYNC (uh?) it also somehow changes the grass (uh? grass is not even included in the base game), it reduces the shadow resolution and distances (thats ok, just the top setting looks bad as explained above) and rest is unknown to me.
It seems quite messy honestly
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- King of Worms
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Re: Shadows settings
I recommend stepping down to beautiful, for better visuals
Btw we can adjust shadow distance in the config files, for the interiors and dungeons, the preset is good, but for exteriors its safe to increase it two times at least. It reverts to default to me after a while, so after the change, just lock it - Read Only .)
Default 90 distance: Enhanced 200 distance:
I tryed 500 as well, but it doesnt change at all compared to 200. So 200 is deffo the MAX. But maybe 150 will be the same as 200 as well, I have not found where the limit EXACTLY is, but it doesnt matter IMHO. 200 will max you out, thats for sure. I did not see any difference in performance.
But indeed, the enhanced distance adds a lot to the game, the shadows pop up is almost invisible this way. Its deffo worth it Id say. Outside is not very HW demanding, compared to interriors with many light sources. So it seems safe to bump it up to me.
Btw we can adjust shadow distance in the config files, for the interiors and dungeons, the preset is good, but for exteriors its safe to increase it two times at least. It reverts to default to me after a while, so after the change, just lock it - Read Only .)
Default 90 distance: Enhanced 200 distance:
I tryed 500 as well, but it doesnt change at all compared to 200. So 200 is deffo the MAX. But maybe 150 will be the same as 200 as well, I have not found where the limit EXACTLY is, but it doesnt matter IMHO. 200 will max you out, thats for sure. I did not see any difference in performance.
But indeed, the enhanced distance adds a lot to the game, the shadows pop up is almost invisible this way. Its deffo worth it Id say. Outside is not very HW demanding, compared to interriors with many light sources. So it seems safe to bump it up to me.
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- King of Worms
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Re: Shadows settings
Ok even the READ ONLY flag is not enough and DFU overwrites it after a while, duh
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- pango
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Re: Shadows settings
That setting value is clamped to 0.1 ... 150 range when loaded:
https://github.com/Interkarma/daggerfal ... er.cs#L217
Is the value of 150 kept, or does it also eventually resets to 90? I wonder where that 90 comes from
https://github.com/Interkarma/daggerfal ... er.cs#L217
Is the value of 150 kept, or does it also eventually resets to 90? I wonder where that 90 comes from
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- BadLuckBurt
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Re: Shadows settings
The Read only-flag you set through file properties is very unreliable when programs manipulate the file directly. The only way to really prevent it is to dive deeper into the Security settings for the file but it seems it'll get capped to 150 in the engine anyway so if you keep it at 150 you should be good.King of Worms wrote: ↑Tue Oct 15, 2019 11:42 am Ok even the READ ONLY flag is not enough and DFU overwrites it after a while, duh
The value of 150 is kept, at least it was for me. I set it to 180 earlier, just opened the INI again and it's set to 150 now.pango wrote: ↑Tue Oct 15, 2019 2:44 pm That setting value is clamped to 0.1 ... 150 range when loaded:
https://github.com/Interkarma/daggerfal ... er.cs#L217
Is the value of 150 kept, or does it also eventually resets to 90? I wonder where that 90 comes from
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- King of Worms
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Re: Shadows settings
Hi, 90 is the default set by Interkarma I believe. He made these settings in the optimalization pass recently (last month or two)pango wrote: ↑Tue Oct 15, 2019 2:44 pm That setting value is clamped to 0.1 ... 150 range when loaded:
https://github.com/Interkarma/daggerfal ... er.cs#L217
Is the value of 150 kept, or does it also eventually resets to 90? I wonder where that 90 comes from
So it reverts to the default value, even when read/write protected.
Thanks for the info of the 150, I will set that up and see if it gets reverted as well
EDIT: Maybe it reverts to last correct value? So to BadLuck it reverted to 150 and to me to 90. That would make sense. Will test that. Thanks guys!
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- King of Worms
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Re: Shadows settings
150 seems to stick so far, thanks
I made another screen to demonstrate the cascading effect which gets very pronounced on the max settings, and is not present on one setting bellow max.
Its especially visible at the narrow lines, so all the cities houses etc. Another reason why I think the lower setting is actually better.
I made another screen to demonstrate the cascading effect which gets very pronounced on the max settings, and is not present on one setting bellow max.
Its especially visible at the narrow lines, so all the cities houses etc. Another reason why I think the lower setting is actually better.
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