Will ever have fully 3D models???

[Firebrand]

One of the issue is fast traveling everywhere, you dont really explore, make it a quarter the size with the same amount of things and make the content density 4 times higher.

Instead of Fast Travelling everywhere, have you tried this?

viewtopic.php?f=27&t=1293

Yes its not good at all, what i mean is the content density is very very low, thats a problem, its a big empty world in a lot of ways with mostly tasks not quests, this means little to no story, there are some mods to try and change that but then you get into the fact everyone is a sprite and a lot of them look the same, im sure mods will fix this eventually but as of now the game just feels empty, then when you do do some tasks the dungeons are big and samey even with the tweak to make them smaller.

Its not fun to wonder around the same area for close to an hour trying to find some hidden door, its just cryptic and bad game design, thats not rewarding.

I think it's matter of taste. Some people thinks that this huge, huge world make you feel tiny and lost.
But I agree that more content, to differentiate the various area of the world, would be a great improvement.

Also, but it's me, I love the crazy impossible huge dungeons. The bigger, the better. If you're a good spellcaster, you can levitate and recall like crazy
Dungeons in later ES games looks really dumbed down. Why a dungeon cannot start with a bottomless pit, fill with water and a long section underwater? The world is hard, and if your character is not up to the task, it will probably die soon. Compared to classic Daggerfall, in DFU the map is super-useful, you just have to methodically visit every tunnel and room. Secret doors are always shown on the map, even before you find them (like in classic Daggerfall). It happend to me just once in a month of playing that I didn't find the target of my quest. The only complain for me about dungeon, again, is variety.

[SirDetSilent]

Instead of Fast Travelling everywhere, have you tried this?

viewtopic.php?f=27&t=1293

Yes its not good at all, what i mean is the content density is very very low, thats a problem, its a big empty world in a lot of ways with mostly tasks not quests, this means little to no story, there are some mods to try and change that but then you get into the fact everyone is a sprite and a lot of them look the same, im sure mods will fix this eventually but as of now the game just feels empty, then when you do do some tasks the dungeons are big and samey even with the tweak to make them smaller.

Its not fun to wonder around the same area for close to an hour trying to find some hidden door, its just cryptic and bad game design, thats not rewarding.

I think it's matter of taste. Some people thinks that this huge, huge world make you feel tiny and lost.
But I agree that more content, to differentiate the various area of the world, would be a great improvement.

Also, but it's me, I love the crazy impossible huge dungeons. The bigger, the better. If you're a good spellcaster, you can levitate and recall like crazy
Dungeons in later ES games looks really dumbed down. Why a dungeon cannot start with a bottomless pit, fill with water and a long section underwater? The world is hard, and if your character is not up to the task, it will probably die soon. Compared to classic Daggerfall, in DFU the map is super-useful, you just have to methodically visit every tunnel and room. Secret doors are always shown on the map, even before you find them (like in classic Daggerfall). It happend to me just once in a month of playing that I didn't find the target of my quest. The only complain for me about dungeon, again, is variety.

But dungeons that are stupidly large to the point they make no sense detract from the game especially when its the same few textures over and over and over again and that same cell ive seen 65 times, its not good, a dungeon should take about 15 mins maximum to find your target not 30 mins to 2 hours with 90% of it being running around in circles, then hiding things behind secret doors that have no demarcation at all, just random luck, thats not good game design at all.

There fair challenge, then there stupidity.

[Seferoth]

Yes its not good at all, what i mean is the content density is very very low, thats a problem, its a big empty world in a lot of ways with mostly tasks not quests, this means little to no story, there are some mods to try and change that but then you get into the fact everyone is a sprite and a lot of them look the same, im sure mods will fix this eventually but as of now the game just feels empty, then when you do do some tasks the dungeons are big and samey even with the tweak to make them smaller.

Its not fun to wonder around the same area for close to an hour trying to find some hidden door, its just cryptic and bad game design, thats not rewarding.

I think it's matter of taste. Some people thinks that this huge, huge world make you feel tiny and lost.
But I agree that more content, to differentiate the various area of the world, would be a great improvement.

Also, but it's me, I love the crazy impossible huge dungeons. The bigger, the better. If you're a good spellcaster, you can levitate and recall like crazy
Dungeons in later ES games looks really dumbed down. Why a dungeon cannot start with a bottomless pit, fill with water and a long section underwater? The world is hard, and if your character is not up to the task, it will probably die soon. Compared to classic Daggerfall, in DFU the map is super-useful, you just have to methodically visit every tunnel and room. Secret doors are always shown on the map, even before you find them (like in classic Daggerfall). It happend to me just once in a month of playing that I didn't find the target of my quest. The only complain for me about dungeon, again, is variety.

But dungeons that are stupidly large to the point they make no sense detract from the game especially when its the same few textures over and over and over again and that same cell ive seen 65 times, its not good, a dungeon should take about 15 mins maximum to find your target not 30 mins to 2 hours with 90% of it being running around in circles, then hiding things behind secret doors that have no demarcation at all, just random luck, thats not good game design at all.

There fair challenge, then there stupidity.

I rather have Daggerfall's large dungeons than Skyrim's 1 minute "dungeons". Of course DFU has the best dungeons, just put the smaller dungeons option on and you get perfect dungeons.

[SirDetSilent]

I think it's matter of taste. Some people thinks that this huge, huge world make you feel tiny and lost.
But I agree that more content, to differentiate the various area of the world, would be a great improvement.

Also, but it's me, I love the crazy impossible huge dungeons. The bigger, the better. If you're a good spellcaster, you can levitate and recall like crazy
Dungeons in later ES games looks really dumbed down. Why a dungeon cannot start with a bottomless pit, fill with water and a long section underwater? The world is hard, and if your character is not up to the task, it will probably die soon. Compared to classic Daggerfall, in DFU the map is super-useful, you just have to methodically visit every tunnel and room. Secret doors are always shown on the map, even before you find them (like in classic Daggerfall). It happend to me just once in a month of playing that I didn't find the target of my quest. The only complain for me about dungeon, again, is variety.

But dungeons that are stupidly large to the point they make no sense detract from the game especially when its the same few textures over and over and over again and that same cell ive seen 65 times, its not good, a dungeon should take about 15 mins maximum to find your target not 30 mins to 2 hours with 90% of it being running around in circles, then hiding things behind secret doors that have no demarcation at all, just random luck, thats not good game design at all.

There fair challenge, then there stupidity.

I rather have Daggerfall's large dungeons than Skyrim's 1 minute "dungeons". Of course DFU has the best dungeons, just put the smaller dungeons option on and you get perfect dungeons.

Still too large.
Too samey.


AND MAKE NO SENSE FOR THEM TO BE A BUILDING EVER USED FOR ANYTHING, FROM A WORLD PERSPECTIVE THEY MAKE NO SENSE.

No tes game has good dungeons but atleast in Skyrim, oblivion and Morrowind they are short enough to not be an issue, in Daggerfall they are long, samey, badly made, sometimes broken and often have cryptic things in them that are pure luck.

[pango]

What makes no sense to me is this whole thread.
You don't like Daggerfall choices, fine. But what is your whining here supposed to achieve?
Even if you managed to convince some people (and it's not clear that you did yet), it won't change what Daggerfall is and how it works anytime soon; At best it will take a lot of time and modding effort, at worse too few people will care and it won't happen.

[mikeprichard]

I actually mostly agree with the OP about the unprecedented breath yet at the same time extreme shallowness/awkwardness of Daggerfall's writing, gameplay, and dungeon design in general, but also don't know what this topic is supposed to achieve. Love it or hate it, DF is what it is at its core.

[SirDetSilent]

I actually mostly agree with the OP about the unprecedented breath yet at the same time extreme shallowness/awkwardness of Daggerfall's writing, gameplay, and dungeon design in general, but also don't know what this topic is supposed to achieve. Love it or hate it, DF is what it is at its core.

I was hoping there were ways to fix the things i highlighted to a certain degree.

[mikeprichard]

Re: 3d models, this has been brought up quite a bit over the years, but of course it would be a massive overhaul of how the game plays - e.g. viewtopic.php?f=22&t=2738, viewtopic.php?f=14&t=1580&hilit=3d+models+sprites, etc.

Re: the dungeon layout, as mentioned and as you're aware, Interkarma recently introduced a "smaller dungeons" option, but if you are in fact looking for more bespoke/custom-crafted realistic dungeon environments, that might unfortunately be beyond the scope of what's humanly possible, given the 4,229 dungeons in classic DF.

Re: the faction quest writing, there are many quest mods already out and in the works, which you'll see when you browse the forums a bit. Not sure whether anyone has/will significantly alter the vanilla faction quests anytime soon.

I'm not trying to invalidate these issues, but all of this (like anything else in game dev) would require skilled modders who are both willing and able to take on this work, which with a game the scope of Daggerfall, is probably unlikely to ever happen in our lifetimes. Just my thoughts having followed this project for several years.

[SirDetSilent]

Re: 3d models, this has been brought up quite a bit over the years, but of course it would be a massive overhaul of how the game plays - e.g. viewtopic.php?f=22&t=2738, viewtopic.php?f=14&t=1580&hilit=3d+models+sprites, etc.

Re: the dungeon layout, as mentioned and as you're aware, Interkarma recently introduced a "smaller dungeons" option, but if you are in fact looking for more bespoke/custom-crafted realistic dungeon environments, that might unfortunately be beyond the scope of what's humanly possible, given the 4,229 dungeons in classic DF.

Re: the faction quest writing, there are many quest mods already out and in the works, which you'll see when you browse the forums a bit. Not sure whether anyone has/will significantly alter the vanilla faction quests anytime soon.

I'm not trying to invalidate these issues, but all of this (like anything else in game dev) would require skilled modders who are both willing and able to take on this work, which with a game the scope of Daggerfall, is probably unlikely to ever happen in our lifetimes. Just my thoughts having followed this project for several years.

Not custom crafted but more authentic to reality, they can be generated but a more reasonable size and layout with less random cryptic shit that really doesnt add to anything.

[pango]

Not custom crafted but more authentic to reality, they can be generated but a more reasonable size and layout with less random cryptic shit that really doesnt add to anything.

From what I understand, the possibility to mod dungeon modules has only be added very recently.
So it's no longer totally out of question, but making new dungeon modules will still require a lot of efforts.