Players having hard time hitting rats

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pango
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Players having hard time hitting rats

Post by pango » Sat Dec 14, 2019 7:15 pm

(This topic has been brought before, but I think it deserves a specific discussion and analysis)

Just watching the stream of a first run, player picked a Battle Mage, got an iron saber (bad material, but at least a long sword, one of his primary skills) yet got wrecked by a rat because he didn't manage to hit it once with the saber:

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/519264843?t=23m30s

My hypothesis, posted earlier, was that when trying to hit cornered rats he was actually hitting the back wall, I created a patch to have walls make some noise when hit (I reused a parry sound, I would have preferred something more distinctive, but that's all I have).
But I didn't manage to get that sound while fighting with rats, so I couldn't validate my hypothesis.
I even tried with click-to-attack, in case it was related to that setting I never use, but no better luck (and man, did I had a hard time keeping my mouse straight with that mode!)

So I tried to recreate a character close to his one, to get about the same RNG values as he did:

Code: Select all

Azaril Helbon
Male Dark Elf
Battle Mage
auto generated background

STR 60
INT 70
WIL 56
AGI 58
END 56
PER 45
SPD 55
LUC 56

Destruction 32
Long Blade  33
Axe         29

Thaumaturgy  25
Alteration   21
Hand-to-Hand 20

Illusion     14
Mysticism    13
Restoration  20
Archery      16
Short Blade  16
Blunt Weapon 16

High Reflexes
And had no issue killing the first rat, the bat, skipped the imp, killed the second rat (had to swing my iron saber 6 times, hitting only every third time), without even resting.

I'm not sure what I learned to get combat working, but given the RNG should be about the same as the streamer I watched, I assume this is an action-like knowledge.

I wonder if comparing different people experience with an identical character could help understand how they differ (and what we should do about it)...
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Seferoth
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Re: Players having hard to hitting rats

Post by Seferoth » Sat Dec 14, 2019 7:16 pm

I have to pretty much always crouch when fighting rats, makes it easier to hit them.
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Firebrand
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Re: Players having hard time hitting rats

Post by Firebrand » Sat Dec 14, 2019 8:35 pm

In my experience, Rats are difficult to hit if your character has pathetic skill with that kind of weapon :lol:

If weapon skill is good, never had a problem :)

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pango
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Re: Players having hard time hitting rats

Post by pango » Sat Dec 14, 2019 8:43 pm

Firebrand wrote:
Sat Dec 14, 2019 8:35 pm
In my experience, Rats are difficult to hit if your character has pathetic skill with that kind of weapon :lol:

If weapon skill is good, never had a problem :)
I did my test with almost identical character and same weapon so as to rule out those differences.
When a measure becomes a target, it ceases to be a good measure.
-- Charles Goodhart

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pango
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Re: Players having hard to hitting rats

Post by pango » Sat Dec 14, 2019 8:46 pm

Seferoth wrote:
Sat Dec 14, 2019 7:16 pm
I have to pretty much always crouch when fighting rats, makes it easier to hit them.
I've seen this strategy used indeed by some players. The problem is that it changes several parameters at once: angle, easier aiming, probably different combat distance too...
So it's hard to tell what matters exactly, but maybe a combo of those.
When a measure becomes a target, it ceases to be a good measure.
-- Charles Goodhart

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Interkarma
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Re: Players having hard time hitting rats

Post by Interkarma » Sat Dec 14, 2019 10:03 pm

Weapon spherecast radius was reduced slightly to allow attacking through bars in cages. The other side of this coin is player needs to be more slightly precise when aiming. The crosshair needs to be over the rat or at least very close to.

Rats have a small capsule, possibly the smallest in the game, it helps to visualise in editor. We could increase the size of rat's collider to make it a more forgiving target.

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pango
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Re: Players having hard time hitting rats

Post by pango » Sat Dec 14, 2019 10:10 pm

I agree, if that has no drawbacks (say, rats don't get stuck between crates in Privateers Hold for example).
When a measure becomes a target, it ceases to be a good measure.
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Ralzar
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Re: Players having hard time hitting rats

Post by Ralzar » Sat Dec 14, 2019 10:12 pm

Even if this gets solved, a “hitting wall sound” would be welcome for both practicality and immersion.
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mikeprichard
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Re: Players having hard time hitting rats

Post by mikeprichard » Sat Dec 14, 2019 10:14 pm

+1 for a sound when your strike hits the wall/floor/ceiling instead of a creature. Also, I had suggested to Consequence in that linked thread that he/she provide a save file, but I'm not sure if anyone who has raised this issue has done so, or whether it would be likely to help if they did. Hopefully tweaks to the rat hit capsule (rats apparently being the common reported issue) will help, if possible.

Or... we could replace all rats with giants. ;)

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Jay_H
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Re: Players having hard time hitting rats

Post by Jay_H » Sat Dec 14, 2019 10:36 pm

mikeprichard wrote:
Sat Dec 14, 2019 10:14 pm
Or... we could replace all rats with giants. ;)
Which would you rather fight, 100 rat-sized giants or one giant-sized rat? :lol:
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