Daggerfall Workshop Forums

Jay_H, make it happen - your mod needs more rat giants!

Jay_H wrote: ↑Sat Dec 14, 2019 10:36 pm

mikeprichard wrote: ↑Sat Dec 14, 2019 10:14 pm Or... we could replace all rats with giants.

Which would you rather fight, 100 rat-sized giants or one giant-sized rat?

Rat-sized giants would be adorable!

Btw, another "can't hit enemy" effect that might be looked at:

Hitting enemies through open doors. The door is insubstantial for player and monster, but it appears it still disrupts attacks. So in smaller rooms the enemy might be standing in a corner behind the door and seem immune to attacks.

At least that's what it seemed like when it happened to me just now.

Edit: and I realize that not hitting people through doors is more "realistic", but it doesn't jive well with the door being insubstantial.

Ralzar wrote: ↑Sun Dec 15, 2019 12:09 pm Btw, another "can't hit enemy" effect that might be looked at:

Hitting enemies through open doors. The door is insubstantial for player and monster, but it appears it still disrupts attacks. So in smaller rooms the enemy might be standing in a corner behind the door and seem immune to attacks..

Hey, guess what, I made the same observation, and went to check what classic does in this case yesterday
If you hit an open door, first you get the "bashing door" sound, then the door is bash-closed (*). And also, it draws the attention of nearby enemies, just like bash opening doors does, but it's the first 2 effects that should take care of this awkward situation with enemies hiding behind or inside doors.
So there's already a PR to implement that.

We'll see how fighting in small rooms improves, I guess you'll have to be careful not hitting the door when you don't mean to, so it'll still be a bit difficult. I'm not sure it can be helped.

*. well, sometimes classic is confused, and re-opens the opened door instead. So it immediately closes, and replays the opening animation.

I find I really don't like doors being insubstantial. The other major problem with doors is the ability of MOBs to see through them and attack through them. I know classic behavior dictates that you click on the door and that door then ceases to exist for enemies but it's a behavior that is immersion-breaking for me. It would be nice if MOBs would treat these doors as objects that are between them and the player. There are a couple of behaviors that could mitigate this.

• The monster is immediately moved back beyond the swing radius of the door and will not advance until it can do so without colliding with the animation.
• Monster attacks that collide with the door hit the door and not the player but do not close the door.

That would be nice, but I assume it opens a can of worms when it comes to implementation; We've seen with climbing mechanics that force-moving characters around is difficult to get right. I imagine some cases will be problematic too, like room just large enough for the door swinging inside, so in such case some compromises will have to be made

jayhova wrote: ↑Sun Dec 15, 2019 7:04 pm The other major problem with doors is the ability of MOBs to see through them and attack through them.

It would be nice if MOBs would treat these doors as objects that are between them and the player. There are a couple of behaviors that could mitigate this.

I also notice that I get bitten by the lowest level vermin the instant the door opens, or even as it's swinging open. It WOULD be really nice if the doors had some sort of collision, but then even giant rats and bats are pretty small.

I like to try and role-play away such glitches. Can rats, bats and bears smell a humanoid who just washed up naked in a cave and put on the sweaty boots of the guy he just killed? Or hear me coming~? Maybe that's why they can appear to see through doors. Their AI has already registered me before I even open the door? Perhaps, but should they be able to instantly attack and hit?

Is it possible to put a time-delay on the first attack when a door is opened?

I open the doors using the full length of my arms (or weapon?) and this seems sufficient to evade bites...

Consequence of Grace wrote: ↑Mon Dec 16, 2019 5:14 pm

jayhova wrote: ↑Sun Dec 15, 2019 7:04 pm The other major problem with doors is the ability of MOBs to see through them and attack through them.

It would be nice if MOBs would treat these doors as objects that are between them and the player. There are a couple of behaviors that could mitigate this.

I also notice that I get bitten by the lowest level vermin the instant the door opens, or even as it's swinging open. It WOULD be really nice if the doors had some sort of collision, but then even giant rats and bats are pretty small.

pango wrote: ↑Mon Dec 16, 2019 5:17 pm I open the doors using the full length of my arms (or weapon?) and this seems sufficient to evade bites...

I don't think that anything special needs to be done to the code for correcting the problem with MOBs crowding the door and then attacking straight through it when the player clicks on it. There is already code to do this for the most part. A stong hit already moves a MOB backward and stops them from immediately attacking. Part of that code could be used here. It's not necessary to make the door substantial. All that is necessary is that the MOB be moved backward and be kept from immediately attacking. Both of these things happen with the stunning blow sequence. The two things you don't need to do is cause damage or play the animation sequence.

Forcing the player to Roleplay an unrealistic sequence of events (rat jumps through insubstantial door and attacks player) is not conducive to good roleplaying.

It seems like daggerfall classic has a sort of auto aim to where swings anywhere in front of you (within reason) always hit, whereas the swings in unity seem to be much more precise.