Winter at Totambu, but green plants

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BadLuckBurt
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Re: Winter at Totambu, but green plants

Post by BadLuckBurt »

King of Worms wrote: Tue Feb 11, 2020 11:49 am What I try to say is, that in my opinion this part of the game should be covere with snow, because 3/4 of this part is already covered with snow as default by the Bethesda decission.
I understand but disagree because snow logically doesn't belong in a rainforest, sub-tropical might be up for debate but even there I'd lean towards no snow when looking at real-life sub-tropical climates.

There is no right or wrong in this matter though, with all the half-baked stuff Daggerfall has, we'll never know what their true intentions were. I think it's just a problem that arose from only having 4 base climates and also tying building textures to those 4.

If the necessary code is exposed to modders it would be possible to make a mod for both my and your proposal.
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King of Worms
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Re: Winter at Totambu, but green plants

Post by King of Worms »

Yea I agree that eventho the majority of assets in that region have a winter variant, its might be just (one of many) nonsense stuff in Daggerfall..
And yea, winter jungle covered in snow is not realistic when compared to real world...

What I like about it, is the diversity. Daggerfall really needs the diversity, and removing the winter from the region will just make more homogenic and I dont enjoy that, no matter the realism aspects (besides, who knows how weather really works in this fantasy world)

What I would enjoy is this area to have different look at winter. It doesnt have to be all covered with snow. Maybe it could be more wet, more ponds... or just something as simple as palette shift.

Ive created a terrain textures which are just a palette shift of the summer version and it looked great in the wilderness! Until I came to the city and realized every building and city walls are covered in snow there :D

Well... to sum it up, Id like this area to have distinct look during the winter, just because the engine and code is ready for that (besides the terrain flats)
Agreed the snow everywhere is maybe not the best idea tho. I tend to prefer the palette shift aproach with slight desaturation and maybe some minor tweaks here and there on the terrain flats.

If this is worth the work needed compared to keeping it summer all the time - is another question... I think it is worth it tho.,

haloterm
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Re: Winter at Totambu, but green plants

Post by haloterm »

Very interesting discussing, thanks for confirming that this is nothing I have to worry about (I thought maybe my installation is wrong).

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Ralzar
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Re: Winter at Totambu, but green plants

Post by Ralzar »

Agreed on both counts. It would be a shame to have less diversity AND it seems a bit silly with winter.

Does the game currently only have summer/winter? Because it would actually be really nice if you could have autumn and spring woodlands. Maybe just making the nature parts more light green in the spring and more yellow/brown in the fall.
The southern region could even still have snow, but more like a random thing or maybe just for a month instead of a whole season?
Areas like the rainforest and swamp parts should really have seasons where it just rains ALL the time.

Yeah... Daggerfall could have done the climate stuff better :D
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BadLuckBurt
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Re: Winter at Totambu, but green plants

Post by BadLuckBurt »

King of Worms wrote: Tue Feb 11, 2020 3:34 pm Yea I agree that eventho the majority of assets in that region have a winter variant, its might be just (one of many) nonsense stuff in Daggerfall..
And yea, winter jungle covered in snow is not realistic when compared to real world...

What I like about it, is the diversity. Daggerfall really needs the diversity, and removing the winter from the region will just make more homogenic and I dont enjoy that, no matter the realism aspects (besides, who knows how weather really works in this fantasy world)

What I would enjoy is this area to have different look at winter. It doesnt have to be all covered with snow. Maybe it could be more wet, more ponds... or just something as simple as palette shift.
I agree 100% with your post and that it would be great to have distinct look for those climates in winter time. It sounds to me that we need a way to define the used texture sets (terrain, nature and buildings) for each climate / season combination to override the weird defaults we end up with currently. Even deserts don't always look the same although some people think they do.
Last edited by BadLuckBurt on Tue Feb 11, 2020 6:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Daggerfall Unity on UESP: https://en.uesp.net/w/index.php?title=T ... fall_Unity
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pango
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Re: Winter at Totambu, but green plants

Post by pango »

Ralzar wrote: Tue Feb 11, 2020 4:22 pm Yeah... Daggerfall could have done the climate stuff better :D
At least, it did something ;)

No luck with the Spoiler section above for me :(
When a measure becomes a target, it ceases to be a good measure.
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BadLuckBurt
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Re: Winter at Totambu, but green plants

Post by BadLuckBurt »

pango wrote: Tue Feb 11, 2020 6:00 pm No luck with the Spoiler section above for me :(
I should've checked if it opened. I quoted KoW's entire post but didn't want to make the page superlong so tried the spoiler :) Removed the spoiler tags, quoted a smaller piece and updated my reply
Daggerfall Unity on UESP: https://en.uesp.net/w/index.php?title=T ... fall_Unity
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sollrakc
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Re: Winter at Totambu, but green plants

Post by sollrakc »

Since I don't recall ever seeing snow textures for terrain/buildings on jungles outside of DFU, I decided to do some testing in classic DF to see how they work there.
First, I made sure winter had kicked in at the neighboring mountain biome, and then, traveled to some jungle villages in Layinlin and Totambu.
Turns out there's no winter textures to be seen there. Neither flats nor terrain:
DOSBox 0.74, Cpu speed_    50000 cycles, Frameskip  0, Program_     FALL 11-Jun-20 3_51_38 PM.png
DOSBox 0.74, Cpu speed_ 50000 cycles, Frameskip 0, Program_ FALL 11-Jun-20 3_51_38 PM.png (67.53 KiB) Viewed 289 times
[

Then I checked out the swamps. It was snowing and both the buildings and terrain had their snow variant textures, but, as expected, no vegetation flats variant.
osubi.png
osubi.png (64.94 KiB) Viewed 289 times
As if this wasn't confusing enough, only the TERRAIN snow textures remained after the snow stops falling... the buildings get back their regular textures :|
wat.png
wat.png (74.94 KiB) Viewed 289 times

TLDR; Unlike in DFU, the winter textures are unused for the rainforest climate in classic DF. Those textures are only used for the swamp climate.

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King of Worms
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Re: Winter at Totambu, but green plants

Post by King of Worms »

Very nice observation, hopefully this points us towards better implementation to DFU?
The buildings turning to non-winter variants when the snowing stops are strange tho :D

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