Daggerfall 1996 manual ideas

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King of Worms
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Daggerfall 1996 manual ideas

Post by King of Worms » Mon Mar 09, 2020 8:07 pm

Ive downloaded the free GOG daggerfall version and it comes with the PDF manual scan.
I went thru it, and it contains some interesting info... and that made me thinking (sorry :lol: )

1st - can we add the manual to the DFU to same folder as executable?
I know ts included in the daggerfallsetup, thats cool.. but.. its hidden in a folder called Docs. I have not even realized this folder contains the manual during the years I mess with DFU.

But I guess there will be some legal issues with it, right? Or?

2nd - can we somehow port that in the game? It doesnt have to be in form of those black and white scans with poor contrast. Theres tons of very interesting info hidden in that manual. Maybe we can have a Lore section somewhere in the game? Or include it in the tips of the Loading screen mod? - And make that mod a default part of the game?


The manual has following informations I found really good!
General info from the manual:
Introduction - page 8/97 - basic developer diary and some stage setting

How to roleplay - page 9/97 - devs idea on how you should play the game

History - page 10 - again, stage setting and some interesting lore

Lineage - page14 - The visualized family tree of the Houses of Daggerfall, Sentinel and Wayrest.
Gives more depth to the lore and better understanding of the world and the protagonists.

Specific info:
Race descriptions - page 17- Those have similar info as you can get in the game when u select a province.
I like that, this is how it should be, info in the manual is to be found in the game as well.

Standard Character Classes - page 20 - Same as racial description, info is located in the game when u create a character, good.

Attribute description - page 26 - Detailed info what STR, INT etc means and the modifiers. This info is not in the game, and thats a problem. It should appear when you hover mouse cursor over the stats when u create a character.

Skill description
- page 28 - Again, very good info on the Skills (Archery, Axe etc) - Detailing the governing attributes (AGI will make u shoot bow better) and the description of the skill. This is again not in the game, and should appear when u hover a mouse over that skill

Custom class generation
- page 35 -
- info on the Max HP per level - should be available ingame same as:
Special class advantages definitions (page 36)
Special class disadvantages (page 37)

Swing types description - page 48 -
This is the info u cant get anywhere in the game and thats a problem.
The swing types are important layer to the fighting strategies and players need to know about it
Each attack has DMG and AIM adjustments
It should be described in the game somewhere, even if only as a hints in the Loading screens mod (which should be in a core game anyway.) )

Mages guild standard spells description - page 71
I think these short descriptions should be in the game, newbs dont know what is Chameleon vs Ghost form, Balynas antidote, Harbour air etc There are 73 spells descriprions there.

Spell maker - page 78 - Info on Add effect, Duration, Chance, Magnitude, Cost
Should be in the game as well

Bestiary - page 85 - Nicely detailed info on every mob in the game. It would be so cool to have a bestiary in the game, and after killing a mob, you would get a entry there. Maybe a specific section in the logbook would solve that nicely?



I think this should be considered, we can add a lot of info from the manual to the game as a "hints/tips" which appear when you hover a mouse cursor over a specific areas.

Than there are other parts, which will need some brainstorming on how to implement them, if they should be implemented at all etc...

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Baler
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Re: Daggerfall 1996 manual ideas

Post by Baler » Mon Mar 09, 2020 9:24 pm

In case someone wanted to look at the manual you can get it legal and free straight from Bethesda
https://cdn.bethsoft.com/bethsoft.com/m ... all-en.pdf

source: https://manuals.bethsoft.com/
There is also a french version of the daggerfall manual
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TheLacus
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Re: Daggerfall 1996 manual ideas

Post by TheLacus » Mon Mar 09, 2020 10:10 pm

Tips shown with the loading screen are defined in this file, so is pretty easy to add new ones. The manual looks like a great source of informations but we should check if they are correct.

There was a discussion about adding a guide book to the game. If someone is up to writing it, it can be done using the localization tool.
Mod System documentation - Learn how to create mods for Daggerfall Unity.
Modder Discussion - General help and discussion for the mod system.
Github Issues - Submit a bug report for the game, including the mod system.

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Re: Daggerfall 1996 manual ideas

Post by MasonFace » Tue Mar 10, 2020 2:18 pm

How to roleplay - page 9/97 - devs idea on how you should play the game
I think this is such an important point that needs more emphasis, especially to new DF players that are accustomed to the constant quick-save/quick-load routine to get the best outcome in every single situation. Essentially, every player just role plays as a time bending wizard that's incapable of ever making a mistake or having any consequences. Where's the adventure in that?
Most computer gamers use the save game to maximize their playing ability. Any time something goes wrong, they return to a saved game and replay it until they get it right. The final history of their game looks like an endless streak of lucky breaks and perfect choices. . . If your character dies, gets locked in a dungeon, or some other truly catastrophic event takes place, by all means return to your last saved game and replay it. However, if your character is caught pickpocketing, if a quest goes wrong, or some other mundane mishap occurs, let it play out. You may be surprised by what happens next!

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Ralzar
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Re: Daggerfall 1996 manual ideas

Post by Ralzar » Tue Mar 10, 2020 2:25 pm

MasonFace wrote:
Tue Mar 10, 2020 2:18 pm
How to roleplay - page 9/97 - devs idea on how you should play the game
I think this is such an important point that needs more emphasis, especially to new DF players that are accustomed to the constant quick-save/quick-load routine to get the best outcome in every single situation. Essentially, every player just role plays as a time bending wizard that's incapable of ever making a mistake or having any consequences. Where's the adventure in that?
Most computer gamers use the save game to maximize their playing ability. Any time something goes wrong, they return to a saved game and replay it until they get it right. The final history of their game looks like an endless streak of lucky breaks and perfect choices. . . If your character dies, gets locked in a dungeon, or some other truly catastrophic event takes place, by all means return to your last saved game and replay it. However, if your character is caught pickpocketing, if a quest goes wrong, or some other mundane mishap occurs, let it play out. You may be surprised by what happens next!
Absolutely agree. My games of Daggerfall has improved immensly after I shifted to simply using F9 to quicksave once in a while and that is the only save I have. And it's mostly to protect against death in combat and bugs (not that there really are that many bugs in DFU).
Just roleplaying and rolling with the punches is a lot more interesting and challanging. Not to mention it actually makes the game progress faster as you're not re-playing the same part over and over.

I've been thinking of making a mod that autosaves when you sleep or something and stops you from making your own saves. But I'm holding off until I have a few other functions up and running for defining when you can sleep.
My released mods

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Ommamar
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Re: Daggerfall 1996 manual ideas

Post by Ommamar » Tue Mar 10, 2020 3:09 pm

MasonFace wrote:
Tue Mar 10, 2020 2:18 pm
How to roleplay - page 9/97 - devs idea on how you should play the game
I think this is such an important point that needs more emphasis, especially to new DF players that are accustomed to the constant quick-save/quick-load routine to get the best outcome in every single situation. Essentially, every player just role plays as a time bending wizard that's incapable of ever making a mistake or having any consequences. Where's the adventure in that?
Most computer gamers use the save game to maximize their playing ability. Any time something goes wrong, they return to a saved game and replay it until they get it right. The final history of their game looks like an endless streak of lucky breaks and perfect choices. . . If your character dies, gets locked in a dungeon, or some other truly catastrophic event takes place, by all means return to your last saved game and replay it. However, if your character is caught pickpocketing, if a quest goes wrong, or some other mundane mishap occurs, let it play out. You may be surprised by what happens next!
One thing that carried, over particularly for those who played the game on release, was the habit of saving often in case the engine glitched out. It wasn't necessarily avoid things going side ways in you characters story/development (although there is always that crowd in every game) but to avoid the loss of story advancement or gaining of a powerful item do to the engine failing.

Of course DFU has solved those issues but I think that mind frame and habit from classic Daggerfall remains. I do think it would be awesome if someone modded portions of the game manual into in game books. One thing to consider though is that some of the information in the manual was misleading do to changes or the mentioned items not being implemented. There is also some differences to how DFU and Daggerfall classic operate so that would have to be taken into consideration.

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Re: Daggerfall 1996 manual ideas

Post by King of Worms » Tue Mar 10, 2020 3:33 pm

Agreed on the roleplay, new players dont know how to do that, its important. Lots of stuff from that manual is important. Id like to get as much of it in the game in as seamless way possible.

Lost of stuff can be introduced as a mouse over hints, that must be done. We need that info in the character creation menu.

Other stuff will have to find its way in the game by other means - yes the loading tips are nice. But since the Loading mod is not a part of the game, its kind of mute point. Thats why I suggested making it a part of the game. The default look with black screen, mist at the bottom and a text down it great. And a nice way to communicate with the player! It should be utilized fully.

Than theres the bestiary, history, lore...

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