Character will not swing weapon

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BansheeXYZ
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Re: Character will not swing weapon

Post by BansheeXYZ » Fri Sep 28, 2018 1:00 pm

Al-Khwarizmi wrote:
Fri Sep 28, 2018 7:48 am
In my view the mouse gesture attack mechanics are one of the most brilliant, immersion-enhancing things in Daggerfall
If it was brilliant, it would've been copied more. I simply dislike the idea of weapon swings not working out of the box for new users. For every jayhova that takes the time to ask for help, there's 20 more who lose patience and move on. Do we... want people to think Daggerfall sucks?

I get your nostalgia trip. If this mod is only for grizzled 40 year old men who played Daggerfall when they were kids, then this default is fine. If it's for anyone else, then it's a problem. This is a first person RPG, not A320 Airbus Flight Simulator.

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Jay_H
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Re: Character will not swing weapon

Post by Jay_H » Fri Sep 28, 2018 2:26 pm

We have the click-to-attack option out of the box for game-breaking hangups. The routes are available for both casual and hardcore CRPG players.
Try over 120 all-new quests in the first Daggerfall Unity Quest Pack.

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pango
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Re: Character will not swing weapon

Post by pango » Fri Sep 28, 2018 3:21 pm

Hi,
I'm watching somebody on Twitch playing classic Daggerfall on for the first time (TheDestroyer001), and maybe during his 10th session, talking about weapon handling, he said that it was unusual at first, but had become very satisfying. So I'd say it's an acquired taste.
So for me the question is rather, does weapon swinging work less reliably in Daggerfall Unity than in classic, and if so why and can it be improved.
When a measure becomes a target, it ceases to be a good measure.
-- Charles Goodhart

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Hazelnut
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Re: Character will not swing weapon

Post by Hazelnut » Fri Sep 28, 2018 3:36 pm

pango wrote:
Fri Sep 28, 2018 3:21 pm
Hi,
I'm watching somebody on Twitch playing classic Daggerfall on for the first time (TheDestroyer001), and maybe during his 10th session, talking about weapon handling, he said that it was unusual at first, but had become very satisfying. So I'd say it's an acquired taste.
So for me the question is rather, does weapon swinging work less reliably in Daggerfall Unity than in classic, and if so why and can it be improved.
This is why click to attack must not be the default. It's awkward at first, but it's a fundamental flavour aspect of the game so everyone should try it for a while at least IMO. If some people bounce off because they can't find the click to attack option that's a shame, but DF(U) is not going to be to everyones' taste. When released it will have some guidance and FAQs I expect to minimise this.

Al-Khwarizmi
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Re: Character will not swing weapon

Post by Al-Khwarizmi » Fri Sep 28, 2018 8:42 pm

BansheeXYZ wrote:
Fri Sep 28, 2018 1:00 pm
If it was brilliant, it would've been copied more.

You could say that about Daggerfall in general. Features like the huge procedurally generated world, the huge dungeons, etc. haven't been copied much, but most people here seem to like some or all of them. Otherwise we would just be happy playing Skyrim and wouldn't bother with a remake of an older game.
BansheeXYZ wrote:
Fri Sep 28, 2018 1:00 pm
I simply dislike the idea of weapon swings not working out of the box for new users. For every jayhova that takes the time to ask for help, there's 20 more who lose patience and move on. Do we... want people to think Daggerfall sucks?
If it were a matter of it "not working out of the box for new users", in general, I would agree with you. But as I mentioned, in classic Daggerfall it always worked as far as I know, and here we have a single bug report and we are talking about a remake that is in pre-alpha, so it's likely to be just a bug that can be fixed.

Anyway, I don't really mind that much which of both options is made the default, as long as the gesture controls are available. I would personally favor making gestural controls the default, but I would find it understandable to make click to attack default for the sake of attracting new players. I would sit in my rocking chair telling people to get off my lawn, but I wouldn't complain.

I was just saying that there is no reason why gesture swinging should not work reliably, as as far as I know it did in classic. If it doesn't in DFU at the moment, it's probably something that can be fixed.

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pango
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Re: Character will not swing weapon

Post by pango » Sat Oct 06, 2018 8:16 pm

It seems the best WeaponAttackThreshold setting depends on many parameters, and it has already been discussed ad nauseam in those forums.
But I want to add that the effects of a too high setting has been rather painful in my experience: it seems that you may not only fail a weapon swing, but also that mouse handling can get itself in a weird state: fairly regularly, left and right mouse click stop working, you get standard mouse pointer instead of custom blue arrow in menus (and again you can't click on anything), weapon no longer swings at all (so you find yourself looking at the ceiling while enemies are slicing your guts),... If I maintain the left or right button pressed for a second and release it then everything starts working again. Until the next time; It's hard to say if using the right button is needed for the problem to reappear, I can only assume it does.

WeaponAttackThreshold of 0.01 works ok for me most of the time, but it feels like a workaround to make it practically impossible to move the mouse less than the threshold, or whatever triggers that frustrating state.
(I doubt it, but maybe all this is Linux specific?)
When a measure becomes a target, it ceases to be a good measure.
-- Charles Goodhart

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pango
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Re: Character will not swing weapon

Post by pango » Wed Oct 17, 2018 11:50 am

I don't know if there has been code changes or if that's the result of recent upgrade to Unity 2018.2.x, but that behavior seems to have disappeared (fingers crossed).
Sometimes, while in menus, the mouse pointer switches from blue arrow shape to its usual look for an instant, but this is way, way, less annoying.
When a measure becomes a target, it ceases to be a good measure.
-- Charles Goodhart

jayhova
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Re: Character will not swing weapon

Post by jayhova » Wed Oct 31, 2018 1:06 pm

As it turns out I had to alter the default setting quite a bit to get weapon swing to work with reasonably short mouse strokes. It would be nice if this could be adjusted in-game. It would be even nicer if there were a wizard to adjust this say a screen where you are told to make a downward left to right slash and you do this a few times while facing an attack dummy.
daggerfall unity mouse swing.png
daggerfall unity mouse swing.png (922.85 KiB) Viewed 223 times

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