what happened to sneak/stealth mode?

Post here if you need help getting started with Daggerfall Unity or just want to clarify a potential bug. Questions about playing or modding classic Daggerfall should be posted to Community.
Jeoshua
Posts: 152
Joined: Tue Nov 26, 2019 7:25 am

Re: Sneak key missing?

Post by Jeoshua » Wed Jan 15, 2020 12:17 pm

It does affect checks but only insofar as you are moving less than half max speed. It doesn't have any cumulative effects over crouching.

BadLuckBurt
Posts: 249
Joined: Sun Nov 05, 2017 8:30 pm

Re: Sneak key missing?

Post by BadLuckBurt » Wed Jan 15, 2020 1:19 pm

Ralzar wrote:
Wed Jan 15, 2020 12:00 pm
Btw, might it be that this is the DREAM keybind window and the vanilla keybind window has the Sneak key?
Yep, I think that's DREAM's. It's way too high-res to be vanilla and that's the only mod that replaces that window I believe.

User avatar
pango
Posts: 1930
Joined: Wed Jul 18, 2018 6:14 pm
Location: France
Contact:

Re: Sneak key missing?

Post by pango » Wed Jan 15, 2020 1:37 pm

When a measure becomes a target, it ceases to be a good measure.
-- Charles Goodhart

DaveCastle
Posts: 33
Joined: Fri Dec 13, 2019 12:01 pm
Location: Hungary

Re: what happened to sneak/stealth mode?

Post by DaveCastle » Wed Jan 15, 2020 3:08 pm

It's unintuitive as hell, but it's actually the bind for "Look Around". It's because the mouse tab at the bottom is unavailable, it would change to "Sneak" then. I find it's helpful if I want to line up a melee backstab, but otherwise I don't really bother.
"Always do right. This will gratify some people and astonish the rest."
- Mark Twain

User avatar
Dubiousintent
Posts: 38
Joined: Wed Dec 11, 2019 12:41 am

Re: Sneak key missing?

Post by Dubiousintent » Sat Jan 18, 2020 1:28 am

Jeoshua wrote:
Wed Jan 15, 2020 12:17 pm
It does affect checks but only insofar as you are moving less than half max speed. It doesn't have any cumulative effects over crouching.
Are you saying that you can't combine "Sneak" and "Crouch" keys? The explanation of "Sneak" is that it's a 50% reduction of "current movement speed" (plus -1 to ensure it is always less than exactly 50%) and can apply when riding or levitating. That strongly implies it is a cumulative effect.

Does "Crouch" (based on "base speed") cancel out "Sneak" (based upon "current speed") if both keys are applied at once?

Jeoshua
Posts: 152
Joined: Tue Nov 26, 2019 7:25 am

Re: what happened to sneak/stealth mode?

Post by Jeoshua » Mon Jan 20, 2020 10:49 am

No. They combine to make you slower, but they don't help your sneaking any more than being used singly.

User avatar
Dubiousintent
Posts: 38
Joined: Wed Dec 11, 2019 12:41 am

Re: what happened to sneak/stealth mode?

Post by Dubiousintent » Mon Jan 20, 2020 2:10 pm

Thanks for the clarification. That is what I thought you meant originally.

Much of the confusion arises from conflating the term "sneak" with "stealth". "Sneak" is an action, "crouch" is an action, but "stealth" is a passive result chance.

The conclusion drawn (as you have said before) is "crouch" always results in a chance for "stealth". "Sneak" may or may not, depending upon your "current speed". The two action keys combined are "overkill" (roughly a quarter of base speed) to provide a chance to be "stealthy" without actually modifying the odds of that chance. If you just want to be "stealthy", all you need is to "couch".

Labeling the one key "sneak" is an unfortunate choice of terminology. :roll:

User avatar
mikeprichard
Posts: 858
Joined: Sun Feb 19, 2017 6:49 pm

Re: what happened to sneak/stealth mode?

Post by mikeprichard » Mon Jan 20, 2020 2:53 pm

I don't want to get back into this discussion in depth since it's already been had before, but just noting that both "crouch" and "sneak" individually - although their specific resulting speeds are calculated differently - will always put you under the "half speed" threshold required by stealth mechanics to allow for potential successful passive stealth checks. This all was explained in great detail by the very patient user l3lessed starting at viewtopic.php?f=22&t=2508&hilit=sneak&start=110#p36647 (see that post as well as the next); pretty much anything else anyone would want to know about stealth mechanics are found in that topic around that section and later at viewtopic.php?f=22&t=3175.

User avatar
pango
Posts: 1930
Joined: Wed Jul 18, 2018 6:14 pm
Location: France
Contact:

Re: what happened to sneak/stealth mode?

Post by pango » Mon Jan 20, 2020 4:29 pm

Got a PR that lowers footsteps sound when sneaking, now I wonder if this should be triggered by player's speed instead...
When a measure becomes a target, it ceases to be a good measure.
-- Charles Goodhart

User avatar
mikeprichard
Posts: 858
Joined: Sun Feb 19, 2017 6:49 pm

Re: what happened to sneak/stealth mode?

Post by mikeprichard » Mon Jan 20, 2020 8:06 pm

pango wrote:
Mon Jan 20, 2020 4:29 pm
Got a PR that lowers footsteps sound when sneaking, now I wonder if this should be triggered by player's speed instead...
Anything that could give better feedback about when you're actually moving at a speed that would allow stealth checks would be grand.

Post Reply