Concerning Audio Issues in PreAlpha 0.7.36 (And continuing bug reports)

[pango]

Paladin build EP4

Hit by a barbarian axe thru a secret door (variant of problem already mentioned in this thread)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ca0oxOhN5Zc&t=4650

Can't climb up angled walls
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ca0oxOhN5Zc&t=6105

Blue bars going thru a wall in Scourg Barrow (game data related?)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ca0oxOhN5Zc&t=6952

Cure poison "spell failed", but player got healthy. It may have been that the poison subsided at this very moment
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ca0oxOhN5Zc&t=8125

Some main quest dialog (Morgiah's Wedding last speech) is not saved anywhere (matches classic)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ca0oxOhN5Zc&t=13513

Long confusion after having been paid using a letter of credit (matches classic) PR (fixed)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ca0oxOhN5Zc&t=12023
Banking window uses "gold pieces" for the amount of money you have, including letters of credit (matches classic)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ca0oxOhN5Zc&t=12107
While it matches classic behavior, the time spent investigating what was going on was painful.
Back in the day letters of credit were probably explained in the game documentation, but many DFU players won't have read it, so I think something should be done about it.
Maybe you should get a message (and scribing sound instead of coins sound) when you get paid with a letter of credit?
I also wonder if the letters of credit, like gold stacks, should have their value displayed instead of their amount (even if it changes nothing to their behavior; most notably, I don't think it should be possible to split them). It may require K or even M suffix for large amounts. I hope it would help noticing them. Currently if you're not very careful they can be mistaken for another letter or just a potion recipe.

[BansheeXYZ]

While it matches classic behavior, the time spent investigating what was going on was painful.
Back in the day letters of credit were probably explained in the game documentation, but many DFU players won't have read it, so I think something should be done about it.
Maybe you should get a message (and scribing sound instead of coins sound) when you get paid with a letter of credit?
I also wonder if the letters of credit, like gold stacks, should have their value displayed instead of their amount (even if it changes nothing to their behavior; most notably, I don't think it should be possible to split them). It may require K or even M suffix for large amounts. I hope it would help noticing them. Currently if you're not very careful they can be mistaken for another letter or just a potion recipe.

First off, I agree with you that it's a source of confusion. It stems from gold having weight. Can't get around that.

The sound effect idea isn't a bad one, but keep in mind that an LOC can trigger on purchases as well. So a transaction can involve a combination of gold and LOC changing hands.

The banking window has separate deposit buttons for gold and LoC, but it combines the values in the inventory count. That is the main source of Steep's confusion. Something we could do to prevent that is to display two values in the "Gold Pieces in Your Inventory" field. So if you had 1000 gold and 1000 in LOC, the value displayed would be "1000+1000LoC" instead of "2000".

Also, if the info panel ever gets repurposed as a gold+loc counter, people would see in realtime when their shop transactions result in gaining not gold, but loc due to encumberance. It's a better alternative to new message boxes because it reduces clicking.

[pango]

The sound effect idea isn't a bad one, but keep in mind that an LOC can trigger on purchases as well. So a transaction can involve a combination of gold and LOC changing hands.

Yes, but receiving a letter of credit when you don't even know such thing exists is the only case that can cause confusion.
That said, you're right that changing sound only in this case breaks consistency. Changing sounds consistently will probably be a PITA

Something we could do to prevent that is to display two values in the "Gold Pieces in Your Inventory" field. So if you had 1000 gold and 1000 in LOC, the value displayed would be "1000+1000LoC" instead of "2000".

From what I understand, that can only take place in a post 1.0 release "UI overhaul" mod, so I'm suggesting improvements that do not require modifying screen backgrounds.
Maybe that alert message should have a "don't show this message again" checkbox, but I don't think it's currently possible?

[BansheeXYZ]

From what I understand, that can only take place in a post 1.0 release "UI overhaul" mod, so I'm suggesting improvements that do not require modifying screen backgrounds.

The numerical outputs in the banking window are not graphical. Outputting the value differently isn't very modworthy and overcomes a genuine problem in the banking window's design, which is the inability to see loc vs gold, something you need to enter deposit values.

Yes, but receiving a letter of credit when you don't even know such thing exists is the only case that can cause confusion.

He got confused twice. But yes, that's why the info panel needs to be a gold counter. Even moreso now with the LoC stuff I wasn't even considering when I originally suggested it. All my chars are new, you don't bump into the issue until you start selling serious equipment.

[pango]

Paladin build EP5

Some main quest dialog (Soul of a Lich invitation) is not saved anywhere (matches classic, similar problem already mentioned in this thread)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mzsNBH_AYD8&t=360

Muted NPCs bug (fixed)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mzsNBH_AYD8&t=1084

R(est) key not always responsive
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mzsNBH_AYD8&t=1913
I wonder if that can be an issue with framerate?
Or because

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(Filename: ./Runtime/Export/Debug.bindings.h Line: 43)

AddItem() encountered a duplicate item UID for Letter: -- Morgiah Princess of Wayrest

(Filename: ./Runtime/Export/Debug.bindings.h Line: 43)

[S0000999] Exception in protected quest. Logging only.

is often logged with his game? (fixed)

Audio not muffled underwater (improvement request)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mzsNBH_AYD8&t=2271

Elevator not showing up from below? Or is it because of water
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mzsNBH_AYD8&t=2287

Exploitable magic items merchant restocking
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mzsNBH_AYD8&t=3079
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mzsNBH_AYD8&t=5052
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mzsNBH_AYD8&t=5721 (All abilities to 100%)

Trigger magic item "on held" spell while shopping? Not sure if that can happen in classic
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mzsNBH_AYD8&t=3139

Trinkets not providing buffs reliably (variant of problem already mentioned in this thread) (not reproduced, fixed?)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mzsNBH_AYD8&t=5418

Attacked by a spider thru a wall (variant of a problem already mentioned, but was thru a door)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mzsNBH_AYD8&t=5990

[pango]

Paladin build EP6

Persistent dungeon without Persistent dungeons mod? (I'm kind of suspicious about that one)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=itz6CJbKV0M&t=560

When turning in a quest, questor gives bonus map before the quest success message
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=itz6CJbKV0M&t=1600

Can't fast travel from notes (feature request)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=itz6CJbKV0M&t=1819

Get "they're enemies nearby" because of monsters in nearby unreachable rooms (matches classic)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=itz6CJbKV0M&t=4585

[Jay_H]

When turning in a quest, questor gives bonus map before the quest success message
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=itz6CJbKV0M&t=1600

Interkarma did some quest system optimization a few builds ago that I believe produced this. I've been using workarounds in my quests since then, but classic will likely see this happen occasionally.

[Interkarma]

Jay, could you let me know a classic quest affected by this? I'll look into the execution logic to see what could have changed to produce this.

Pango, thanks for posting these insights. I am watching with interest, even if I don't post to this topic often. I think you could even start a dedicated topic for these. They make a good summary for later polishing.

[pango]

Hi!

Pango, thanks for posting these insights. I am watching with interest, even if I don't post to this topic often. I think you could even start a dedicated topic for these. They make a good summary for later polishing.

Thanks!
Yes, this is my thinking too, one good way to see what could be fixed or improved is watching people play. It's time consuming (enjoyable though), and you don't get the same infos as a well prepared bug report, but you can detect issues that won't be reported otherwise (or only much later).

You're right that I could have started a dedicated thread, maybe everything starting from first systematic watch report could be moved to a new thread?

[Jay_H]

Jay, could you let me know a classic quest affected by this? I'll look into the execution logic to see what could have changed to produce this.

One example I know is An Unexpected Journey Part II, which teleports you into a dungeon if you wait too long to kill the enemy. (A0C01Y06)



Here's a run-down of a few issues that appear:

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_clickonenemy_ task:
	clicked npc _master_ say 1012 
	start timer _shortdelay_ 
	hide npc _master_ 
	cast Shield spell on _mmaster_ 
	cast Spell_Reflection spell on _mmaster_ 
	cast Free_Action spell on _mmaster_ 
	place foe _mmaster_ at _meetingplace_ 

"place foe" fires before "say 1012" and before "hide npc," as evidenced in the video.

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_teleportpc_ task:
	pc at _hidingplace_ set _S.12_ 
	when not _traitordead_ and _shortdelay_ 
	reveal _dungeon_ 
	log 1011 step 1 
	say 1035 
	place foe _mmaster_ at _hidingplace_ 
	place npc _master_ at _hidingplace_ 
	teleport pc to _dungeon_ 

Code: Select all

Message:  1035
The orc shaman's chanting rises 

"teleport pc" occurs before "say 1035."