Breaking into shops after hours

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AndrewBuck
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Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2019 10:01 pm

Breaking into shops after hours

Post by AndrewBuck » Fri Mar 01, 2019 5:31 pm

Not sure if this is a bug or simply not something implemented yet, but here goes...

Currently shops are properly marked as locked when you try to enter them after hours, however if you go to steal mode and click the door you always get in. I.E. there does not appear to be any lockpicking check on the door like you would expect. Although this makes stealing pretty easy for my thief, it does make it a bit less interesting. ;)

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Interkarma
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Joined: Sun Mar 22, 2015 1:51 am

Re: Breaking into shops after hours

Post by Interkarma » Fri Mar 01, 2019 8:49 pm

Automatic success for lockpicking buildings is intentional, pending more research around their lock strengths. This will get another pass in 0.8 (Crime & Punishment).

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MaxiM
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Joined: Tue Jun 11, 2019 10:16 pm

Re: Breaking into shops after hours

Post by MaxiM » Tue Jun 18, 2019 11:47 am

Not gonna start a new thread since my issue is directly tied to this one.

Since there's no skill check, I'm assuming that training lockpicking by breaking into stores also doesn't work? I need to raise my skill past 50, tried countless shops at night and not a single ding was given :(
“The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.”

~ George Bernard Shaw

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Interkarma
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Re: Breaking into shops after hours

Post by Interkarma » Tue Jun 18, 2019 10:16 pm

Correct, activating locked exterior doors with Steal mode does not at this time give you any skill tallies (as not skill is being checked yet). But entering a locked building does give you a crime tally for purposes of getting attention from the Thieves Guild.

Once this has been reviewed and proper skill checks are implemented, you will get a skill tally. This is part of the 0.8 feature group, which we're just moving into now.

NoobioDF
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Joined: Sat Jun 22, 2019 4:03 am

Re: Breaking into shops after hours

Post by NoobioDF » Mon Jun 24, 2019 6:03 am

@ Interkarma

Two thoughts that might be appropriate here:

1) My memory of play back then, is that I had to unlock the shop doors if they were on the ground level. But if I could get to a higher level, like the second floor, I could often get in those doors either because they were unlocked or easier to unlock.

2) Obviously this following suggestion would be only possible after the 0.8 Version Pass on Lock Levels for Shops.

Also it might qualify more for modding than the actual game.

But I would like an option to disallow use of what people used to consider a bug in Daggerfall Original.

Being able to Loiter while the store was open to a time after the store closed and not be forced out of the building after a warning by the shopkeeper, was such a powerful exploit that it was amazing that it existed intentionally. It also meant that breaking and entering had more risk, even though it was more immersive.

I'm wondering if the Loitering Until After Shop Closes then Loot the whole shop bug will be addressed in DFU or if an option to disallow it will be included at or after release, if possible. I am not sure what the DFU team's position is on that exploit. Could you say?

Various methods of solution would be possible. Asked to leave via a Warning by the Merchant, then a call to the guards, etc. Or simply forced out by the game to just outside the shop doors and a message informs player of why and any reputation effect if any. Other ways as well -- such as the shopkeeper going to bed, but the shelves being inaccessible, unlike if you broke in. When you broke in, you had access to the shelves, but if seen entering illegally or if seen by either the Merchant (or even perhaps the other person/wife in the house) you were seen as a trespasser and the guards came. Certainly if seen exiting a building (probably not in Daggerfall Original), with all that loot, you ought to be reported as a criminal to the guards (unless it is a bandit or other faction that wants to collect on its own).

There is so much loot available in Daggerfall, that it really begins to push towards incredulity to think that this was an intended feature. More like a bug or unfinished implementation. Thus the suggestion of a possible option to disallow the loitering until after shop closes and raid the place with impunity. Risk is more entertaining then no risk.

But this might be considered more a mod, and some dev time to achieve, so just a suggestion. Having the option to disallow it would be great, or not allowing it might be great as well.

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