Unable to find gloves better than Steel, which is also rare.

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Firebrand
Posts: 281
Joined: Thu Jul 18, 2019 6:07 pm

Re: Unable to find gloves better than Steel, which is also rare.

Post by Firebrand »

So, I'm supposed to be the lucky one? I'm level 12 :lol:
Nausicaa7.Detail.png
Nausicaa7.Detail.png (334.18 KiB) Viewed 1307 times
You can notice that my helmet is also daedric, unfortunately until the next release of Dream (with HD paperdolls) it will look like a stupid leather helmet :x :lol:

Ommamar
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Re: Unable to find gloves better than Steel, which is also rare.

Post by Ommamar »

D
Last edited by Ommamar on Sat Apr 18, 2020 1:26 am, edited 1 time in total.

Firebrand
Posts: 281
Joined: Thu Jul 18, 2019 6:07 pm

Re: Unable to find gloves better than Steel, which is also rare.

Post by Firebrand »

Ommamar wrote: Thu Sep 05, 2019 1:43 am That is crazy luck to get that at level 12, I do wonder if equipment material needs adjusting as it seems you get the higher level materials starting in the low teens. I won't say it is the best as you have magic items to factor in and it does take a lot of gold to enchant things but still not sure you should have all that higher level material at a relatively low level.
Some time ago I had a look at the armor and weapons materials formulas in the code, and I extrapolated this:
  • Elven since level 1
  • Dwarven (although very very unlikely) since level 2
  • Mithril since level 6
  • Adamantium since level 8
  • Orcish since level 9
  • Ebony and Daedric since level 10
For armors, IIRC, 70% of the chance is leather, 20% chain, 10% plate (of different materials).
The different materials change depending on your character level, according to a certain (long to explain and complex) formula. Basically, the higher your level, the better the chance for better plate materials, although the plate chance is always 10%.
Just to make an example, at level 10, provided that you've found a piece of plate armor (or a weapon), the chance are the following:
  • 25,0% Iron
  • 50,0% Steel
  • 3,9% Silver
  • 8,2% Elven
  • 5,1% Dwarven
  • 3,1% Mithril
  • 2,0% Adamantium
  • 1,2% Orcish
  • 0,8% Ebony
  • 0,8% Daedric
So, for example, the chance your weapon found being Daedric is 0,8%, while your piece of armor being Daedric is just 0,08% (because of the chain and leather garbage :lol: ).

Increasing level after 10, the worst materials just appears left often. At level 32 the materials chance is the following:
  • 9,4% Iron
  • 60,4% Steel
  • 4,7% Silver
  • 9,9% Elven
  • 6,1% Dwarven
  • 3,8% Mithril
  • 2,4% Adamantium
  • 1,4% Orcish
  • 0,9% Ebony
  • 0,9% Daedric

Firebrand
Posts: 281
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Re: Unable to find gloves better than Steel, which is also rare.

Post by Firebrand »

Here are some graphs that I made depicting how materials vary depending on player level:

Iron vs Steel vs All other materials
All_Materials_Graph.gif
All_Materials_Graph.gif (15.85 KiB) Viewed 1281 times
All materials except Iron and Steel
No_IronSteel_Graph.gif
No_IronSteel_Graph.gif (21.65 KiB) Viewed 1281 times
Note: Ebony and Daedric curves are always superimposed, since they always have the same chance.

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siteseer
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Joined: Thu Jul 25, 2019 12:23 am

Re: Unable to find gloves better than Steel, which is also rare.

Post by siteseer »

i've leveled to 22 and i've had a full* set of daedric for a while. *was only missing gauntlets until i found two for sale within a day of each other. that said it is pretty easy to go into the save file and edit in whatever you want, so if you're really impatient crack open that text editor.

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Adrinus
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Re: Unable to find gloves better than Steel, which is also rare.

Post by Adrinus »

Hazelnut wrote: Wed Sep 04, 2019 4:46 pm I'd like to know how to find any Orcish armour in the game. Feels like an impossible thing, Daedric is actually easier. :)

Got a lovely Orcish breastplate from Knights but never found anything to go with it in many hours of playtesting. Is there a trick to it in Daggerfall?
Grimithr (The Reluctant Sage of Daggerfall) has shown it to be and has suggested you get about 1 piece per playthrough of the game. If you're really lucky, maybe 2.

He also suggested that orcs have a tiny chance to drop.

You could argue that one doesn't normally grind orcs in a playthrough, and as such you might figure out a way to get a full set if you did.

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Hazelnut
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Re: Unable to find gloves better than Steel, which is also rare.

Post by Hazelnut »

Adrinus wrote: Thu Sep 19, 2019 3:41 pm
Hazelnut wrote: Wed Sep 04, 2019 4:46 pm I'd like to know how to find any Orcish armour in the game. Feels like an impossible thing, Daedric is actually easier. :)

Got a lovely Orcish breastplate from Knights but never found anything to go with it in many hours of playtesting. Is there a trick to it in Daggerfall?
Grimithr (The Reluctant Sage of Daggerfall) has shown it to be and has suggested you get about 1 piece per playthrough of the game. If you're really lucky, maybe 2.

He also suggested that orcs have a tiny chance to drop.

You could argue that one doesn't normally grind orcs in a playthrough, and as such you might figure out a way to get a full set if you did.
Hmm, feeling like maybe one of my mods may get an expensive/difficult way to get specific armour pieces added.
See my mod code for examples of how to change various aspects of DFU: https://github.com/ajrb/dfunity-mods

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Adrinus
Posts: 289
Joined: Mon Oct 01, 2018 2:28 am

Re: Unable to find gloves better than Steel, which is also rare.

Post by Adrinus »

Hazelnut wrote: Thu Sep 19, 2019 5:02 pm
Adrinus wrote: Thu Sep 19, 2019 3:41 pm
Hazelnut wrote: Wed Sep 04, 2019 4:46 pm I'd like to know how to find any Orcish armour in the game. Feels like an impossible thing, Daedric is actually easier. :)

Got a lovely Orcish breastplate from Knights but never found anything to go with it in many hours of playtesting. Is there a trick to it in Daggerfall?
Grimithr (The Reluctant Sage of Daggerfall) has shown it to be and has suggested you get about 1 piece per playthrough of the game. If you're really lucky, maybe 2.

He also suggested that orcs have a tiny chance to drop.

You could argue that one doesn't normally grind orcs in a playthrough, and as such you might figure out a way to get a full set if you did.
Hmm, feeling like maybe one of my mods may get an expensive/difficult way to get specific armour pieces added.
May I be so bold as to suggest something to do with befriending orcs, maybe a city version of orcinium. Or perhaps something like the witches covens: secret sects of orcs that will sell you armor, but the cost is scaled based on your orcish language skills?

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Jay_H
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Re: Unable to find gloves better than Steel, which is also rare.

Post by Jay_H »

Basing the price solely on Orcish skill sounds pretty broken... Like 150,000 per piece at 1% and 1,500 per piece at 100%?

An Orc guild based in Orsinium might be a fun adventure :)

gimble
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Re: Unable to find gloves better than Steel, which is also rare.

Post by gimble »

Looking through the code, it looks like only the player level matters when determining the material type. In fact, how the random roll works is interesting and seems to explain why orcish is so rare.

The relevant code is actually here -> https://github.com/Interkarma/daggerfal ... Builder.cs

Specifically, lines 104-127 defines the function using parameters from lines 38-41.

Since what the code does isn't immediately obvious, here is some explanation for those who are interested in the details:

1. First, a set of parameters get defined: materialsByModifier = { 64, 128, 10, 21, 13, 8, 5, 3, 2, 5 }. What this does is assign a number for each material type in the game (first entry is iron with a value of 64, second one is steel with a value 128, and so on)
2. The function then rolls a random number from 0-255
3. This number is further modified by player level. Specifically, if player level < 10, it subtracts a value 4 x (10 - player level) to the roll. If player level > 10, it add 2 x (player level - 10) to the roll. This value is further capped and floored to stay between 0 and 255.
4. After that a single sequential pass is executed against the parameters defined at the beginning, comparing each value to the roll. if the roll <= parameter, then the material corresponding to the parameter is assigned. Else, it tries the next materials' parameter after subtracting the previous one from the roll.

This is better explained with an example: Let's say the rolled value is 150. The first parameter is 64, corresponding to iron. Since 150 > 64, it moves to the next material, but subtracts 64 from the rolled value, resulting in 150-64 = 86. The 86 is then compared against Steel's parameter, which is 128. Since 86 < 128 the material assigned is steel in this case.

A consequence of the way the material parameters are assigned makes orcish very rare indeed (orcish has a value of 2 and daedric has a value of 5). Moreover, as the player levels up further above level 10, the bonus roll from the level (step 3 above) actually increases the effective range of daedric from 5 to a higher value each time since it is more likely that a high random number roll gets capped to 255 instead of landing in the narrow range required for orcish.

At player level 1, the maximum possible roll is 255 - 4 x (10 - 1) = 219. Only at level 9 and above, it becomes possible to roll an orcish or daedric item. At level 8 and below, neither orcish nor daedric is possible. This, along with the previous observation, actually explains why orcish is rarer than daedric since it doesn't get an exclusive level where it is the highest material possible and requires a narrower roll range than daedric.

Luck does not affect the roll, only the player's level has a factor (level acts as a penalty to the roll before level 10 and a bonus afterwards). All instances where random loot/items get assigned uses this function to determine the material.

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