A few oddities (bugs?) (0.10.4)

[Virtuous_Outlander]

These are not game-breaking by any means, they are mostly observations that I would like to share with you guys.

1) Whenever I join the Dibella temple, my affiliation is with Dibella and not House of Dibella. Dialogue with House of Dibella members confirms this. This happened to me both in DFU and original daggerfall, so it may just be an old oversight that has not been noticed. I have not observed this in other temples.

2) With this particular character in 0.10.4, successfully completing a fighter's guild quest only adds 3 to reputation instead of the usual 5. I did not observe this with my previous 0.10.4 character (which was a similar custom class). With this character I am, however, using a much more recent version of Jay_H's questpack (I previously still had one of the original iterations). I observed gaining 3 points for successfully completing both original daggerfall quests and Jay_H questpack quests. I also did a quest for a random citizen, checked the FactionData.txt, and only found +3 for Daggerfall and People of Daggerfall factions. Why would I only be gaining 3 points upon quest completion?

3) I noticed that whenever I undertake a quest involving travelling to another town and entering a house, the current town that I am in often names one of the residences the same as the quest house, but without the quest object inside. For instance, I exited Privateer's Hold and walked to Gothway Garden. Then the Cartographer quest initiated, instructing me to go to Holham and enter the Holham Athenaeum. Later while checking on random residences while still in Gothway, I found a house named Holham Athenaeum. I have seen multiple instances of this with an older character (whose file I deleted, sorry), and I think it was happening with both classic and questpack quests, but I am not 100% sure. I did look at the 0.10.6 notes briefly last night, and this may be related to the quest marker system which Interkarma has revamped, so this may not be worth looking into now. Not really a problem, but something I thought someone might want to polish up as we move towards beta and 1.0


Thanks to everyone involved in the making of DFU, and especially Interkarma! My excitement to watch this as this work of art has progressed cannot be overstated.

[Jay_H]

This is good reporting, but I recommend making one topic per issue. Multi-problem threads are more likely to be set aside for a later date or forgotten.

[Hazelnut]

1) This is as classic had it because it's based on the same faction data.

2) +3 rep could be because associated factions get half the rep gain of the faction you do the quest for. For the fighters guild the only way that could happen is you failed a quest -2 and succeeded another +5. If you see this behaviour not matching those theories, please send some saves of before and after and we'll look into it.

3) Not my department,

[Interkarma]

3) should be fixed in 0.10.6 and later. The patch note for this one is:

Fix for quest residence names being marked incorrectly on map

The gist is it wasn't checking location properly before assigning building name. The bug allowed quest residence names to be displayed in wrong towns, and often overlapping/multiple names for same building.

[Virtuous_Outlander]

Duly noted about separate topics! Next time I will keep it separate...for this topic, 2 out of 3 observations are immediately closed.

1) Sounds like this is simply the way the game is programmed...idk if someone might want to change this so that the PC joins the temple faction. The role-playing part of my mind suggests that a PC who serves the Divine directly (as opposed to joining the temple faction) is truly an apostle of the Divine among common worshipers. Consider this item closed.

3) Observation closed in light of recent refinements.

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2) I tried to replicate the +3 rep issue with mages guild by completing a classic mages quest. but I def got +5 like normal. I'm going to keep at this character file for now - I wonder if after a month or two of game time the Fighter's quest completion rep gain will return to normal? Next step is to provide before and after save files of a simple fighter's quest. In this file I have never failed a fighter's quest.

[Virtuous_Outlander]

Here is a closer look at Fighter's quest behavior.

Again it's not really gamebreaking to have nerfed rep rewards for this one faction - especially if i'm going to spam FG quests for gold while my character is at low levels anyway. But I have not observed this ever before and as such it may warrant looking-in-to. Maybe the answers to the character creation questions have resulted in this?

My first idea was something along the lines of "oh I have low rep with FG so I don't gain as much rep" - but this would resolve itself after a couple of quests, right? Attachment 3 (Save 3) shows +15 rep for 5 completed FG quests and 0 failed FG quests.

Also I bet if I started a new character, this would not happen! Will probably test this in 0.10.6 in the near future.

[Hazelnut]

I think I've found the cause of the issue with the fighters guild. According to your saves, they are enemies of themselves! So when you complete a quest you get +5 rep and then -2 for each enemy faction which includes FG so it's only a plus 3 overall.

I think it's most likely the random faction ally/enemy implementation reverse engineered from classic I assume. Not sure if classic could also make a faction enemies of themselves or whether the reverse engineering missed something. Because reputations are not visible at all in classic, this could easily have gone unnoticed.

We can add a check to ensure factions don't ally or make enemies of themselves at a minimum, but this is a massive piece of code that may have other issues. If it can do that, the can it make enemies of parent & child factions or other non-sense states? If anyone has time to review it, please do so. I'm going to be away for a few weeks so is not something I will be doing.

[Ferital]

I submitted a PR to fix the "faction at war with itself" issue alongside other rumor mill problems I noticed today (my previous filter for generic factions was applied only to faction 1).

[Virtuous_Outlander]

Thanks Hazelnut for getting to the bottom of it! And thanks Ferital for putting in a ticket.

The faction and reputation system is one of the most fascinating parts of Daggerfall to me. I would be very interested to learn more about it. Like many other aspects of original daggerfall, I think it comes close to what the developers intended, but it also does not quite seem complete. I certainly think there is room to refine this part of the game as DFU progresses.