Does advanced climbing ignore climbing checks?

[jedidia]

This has been on my mind for a while now, but I'm not confident enough to file a bug report.

Basically, with advanced climbing mode on, I have never fallen off a wall, and my current character totally sucks at climbing.

There are a few times in between when I seem to have fallen off, but I'm not sure if I was just looking to far back which might be interpreted as wanting to let go. In any case, each time I could grab back on to the wall *while falling* by simply looking at it again. It feels a bit OP when a Lvl 2 character with climbing as a misc skill can climb every city wall, or whatever wall in a dungeon.

If there is a skill check performed, maybe there's something wrong with it?

[Hazelnut]

I have the same reservations, and I have adv climing off mostly. When I've looked at the code I get lost & bored so never got to the bottom of it. Sorry, call me a diva if you like...

[pango]

I definitely experienced falling with advanced climbing, but it only happens when your skill is very low (maybe 20% max). Which means that after a little bit of practice you never fall again...

[Interkarma]

It does seem a lot more forgiving, which feels in the spirit of it as a fun option to replace the core climbing experience.

I do think climbing in general is probably still a bit easy though. Something to take a closer look at later.

[King of Worms]

Agreed its deffo too easy compared to original.
To me it actually removes the "acomplishment" factor. I remember getting over a city walls was never really easy. Now its just "press forward". So Id really like to see it nerfed a bit.

The enemy spawn rate while resting still seems to be much higher than in original as well. But thats another topic.

[Interkarma]

The enemy spawn rate while resting still seems to be much higher than in original as well. But thats another topic.

Testing shows that DFU actually generates random spawns at a lower rate than classic. Classic averaged 1 interruption every 6.3 hours compared to DFU at 1 interruption per 10.8 hours.

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=1730&p=20260#p20260

Allofich reverse engineered these formulas from classic, and we've already reduced them slightly based on feedback.

It's not clear why classic will sometimes fail to generate spawns under some circumstances. There doesn't appear to be code for "safe zones" or such that anyone has found. Rather, classic just appears to have trouble placing spawns in the world, particularly inside of dungeons. Having had to build this myself, I can say that free-placing spawns within an arbitrary geometic space isn't as easy as you'd think. It's likely classic just doesn't do this very well, in spite of the true spawn rate, leading to the perception it's lower.

When testing classic in an open outdoor area where it can operate reliably, the true spawn rate is experienced - and it's higher than DFU's. DFU is just better at placing spawns in complex spaces like dungeons.

[King of Worms]

Yes I vaguely remember the discussions about this, and the reasoning, thanks for a reminder!

Bu well... from the players point of view, it doesnt matter WHY the resting spawnrate is lower in the dungeons in vanilla than in DFU and if it can be considered a bug or not Its the end result that matters. And to me, the end result is that the spawnrate in dungeons in DFU appears way too high. BUT, I will leave this up to you guys. Its just my personal input, a strong impression that this part of DFU is quite different from my experience in the past with original Daggerfall.

For me, the thrill of getting ambushed at rest was VERY real in the original, eventho the spawnrate was lower. Now I just know I will make just few hours no matter what and get ambushed. Thats the feeling I have.

But I guess even this part might be modded. "Lower resting spawn rate in dungeons" mod could solve it all for ppl like me

[Interkarma]

Yep that sounds fine. I'll add something to allow you guys you tune this to personal preference.

Edit: Have added delegates to FormulaHelper for random spawn rolls. See here for more. That's it from me, now it's up to the modders.

[mikeprichard]

Glad to see the base DFU climbing difficulty settings will be looked into further - I've always noticed it seems to be quite easy (especially with advanced climbing toggled on, but even with it disabled). However, it may have been just as forgiving in classic Daggerfall.

[Hazelnut]

I'm looking at this now since I want RR mod to prevent climbing unless player sheathes their weapon.

What I've found is quite surprising. There's absolutely no skill check done to start climbing at all! And when it periodically checks if you continue climbing has a base success of 70%!! No wonder it's felt too easy.

The chance of success is basically 100% to initiate climbing and then is Mathf.Lerp(70, 100, climbingSkill * .01f) % chance to successfully continue.

I have no idea if anyone did any testing of classic or reverse engineered anything but this doesn't seem right to me at all. It almost looks like test code. Unfortunately I can't find any formula on UESP or in chronicles though so for all I know this is accurate.

I am planning to make it at least do a skill check to initiate climbing I think, and probably change these values to make it more sensible unless anyone has any issues with that. Any info about classic is welcomed!

Another can o worms opened..

Currently thinking these min chances should be.. start 70%, continue 40%, regainHold 20%
Or maybe the whole thing needs a re-design, depends how well it can match classic behaviour.