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Rain versions of terrain tiles are not used ingame

Posted: Thu Mar 26, 2020 2:45 pm
by King of Worms
Every terrain set has - standard, winter and rain variant.

DFU currently does not use the rain variants. Why so?

Is it used in vanilla Daggerfall?

Re: Rain versions of terrain tiles are not used ingame

Posted: Thu Mar 26, 2020 3:17 pm
by TheLacus
If i remember correctly rain versions only have a different pattern for roads, which is not what i would expect from a "rain" variant...

Re: Rain versions of terrain tiles are not used ingame

Posted: Thu Mar 26, 2020 3:38 pm
by MasonFace
It would be nice to include a rain variant so we could include a custom metallic/smoothness map to make the ground look wet.

A less abrupt solution might be to have the metallic/smoothness map included in the standard variant and let the weather manager change the value of the metallic/smoothness map strength over time as rain accumulates or dries.

Re: Rain versions of terrain tiles are not used ingame

Posted: Thu Mar 26, 2020 4:05 pm
by BadLuckBurt
TheLacus wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 3:17 pm
If i remember correctly rain versions only have a different pattern for roads, which is not what i would expect from a "rain" variant...
Only checked with the mountain terrain but the rain version of that has slightly darker colors for ground textures, not just the road ones.

@KoW, just run around in classic Daggerfall until it rains and you should be able to tell if it's used there. DFU probably only handles the seasonal changes atm.

Re: Rain versions of terrain tiles are not used ingame

Posted: Thu Mar 26, 2020 4:43 pm
by King of Worms
TheLacus wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 3:17 pm
If i remember correctly rain versions only have a different pattern for roads, which is not what i would expect from a "rain" variant...
Its not like that, in majority of cases, whole terrain set is affected. Check in Imaging

002 desert
004 desert rain - whole set is darker

102 mountain
104 mountain rain - whole set is darker

302 woodland
304 woodland rain - whole set is darker

403 swamp

404 swamp rain - here only the roads change

I think last example is to somehow communicate that the swamp is wet all the time, not only during rain
It would be nice to include a rain variant so we could include a custom metallic/smoothness map to make the ground look wet.
And its exactly this, if this feature is enabled, it opens doors for rain specific terrains, maybe even materials.

It would be awesome and seems like the game already supports that, or is ready for it?

Also I want to be sure its disabled INTENTIONALLY and that it is not in fact a bug :)

Re: Rain versions of terrain tiles are not used ingame

Posted: Thu Mar 26, 2020 7:31 pm
by pango
"Snow" textures are used during winter in all places but desert regions, not when it actually snows. This is simpler because those conditions changes not that often, so you can check them when you change region; Even having autumn or winter textures linger for some time after the end of a season shouldn't be a big deal.

The same way, I guess it should be reasonably easy to use "wet" textures based on season. But depending on weather may be more difficult, because you'd have to handle the case where ground textures would need to be changed while you're already outdoors and some textures have already been loaded and displayed around you. Unless you accept inconsistencies sometimes, say textures are only changed after you entered a building, something like that.

At least that's my understanding of the problem right now, maybe someone will show up saying that hot swapping ground textures is not so difficult.

Re: Rain versions of terrain tiles are not used ingame

Posted: Thu Mar 26, 2020 8:29 pm
by Interkarma
King of Worms wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 4:43 pm

Also I want to be sure its disabled INTENTIONALLY and that it is not in fact a bug :)
Can confirm I intentionally don't use the rain set. As you noticed, they're only darker versions of the regular ground textures and pretty much workaround VGA lighting limits in classic.

I didn't feel two texture sets were required just to make the ground darker, and would only complicate the terrain system and modding. We can do this more consistently and simply in DFU using modern lighting and shaders with the base terrain textures.

Re: Rain versions of terrain tiles are not used ingame

Posted: Thu Mar 26, 2020 8:41 pm
by TheLacus
King of Worms wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 4:43 pm
Its not like that, in majority of cases, whole terrain set is affected. Check in Imaging

002 desert
004 desert rain - whole set is darker

102 mountain
104 mountain rain - whole set is darker

302 woodland
304 woodland rain - whole set is darker

403 swamp

404 swamp rain - here only the roads change

I think last example is to somehow communicate that the swamp is wet all the time, not only during rain
I remember noticing the swamp set and wondering what was the point of having a different stones pattern. You're right, the other ones are darker.

I agree with Interkarma. :)

Re: Rain versions of terrain tiles are not used ingame

Posted: Thu Mar 26, 2020 11:23 pm
by King of Worms
I agree with Interkarma that they are not useful anymore . It would be nice to have them open for modding tho ;) but thats not so simple Im afraid, because that would require enabling those rain variants to switch in - and only in a modded version, not in vanilla.