[0.10.23] The Artifact Quest

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Falci
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[0.10.23] The Artifact Quest

Post by Falci »

I just did The Artifact quest for the Knights of the Dragon and noticed a couple of things I'd like to understand if they're working as they should:

- The kid doesn't get removed from my inventory when I deliver her to the witch. Only when I finish the quest (find and pick up the artifact).

- After completing the quest, it vanishes from the quest selection from the quest giver, so I can't repeat it and get another artifact.

Are these expected or bugs? Will the artifact quest ever be offered again?

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Jay_H
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Re: [0.10.23] The Artifact Quest

Post by Jay_H »

The game is coded to only let you accept that quest one time, pass or fail. It'll never come up again for that character ;)

The kid's portrait staying on the screen is a bug I tried to clear out a few builds ago, but for some reason is sticking around. I specifically added these safeguards:

Code: Select all

_S.17_ task:
	when _artifact1_ and _S.15_ 
	place item _aurielsbow_ at _dungeon2_ 
	log 1050 step 2 
	say 1031 
	drop _child_ face
--moved "drop face" here, was not cooperating in S.15

_S.18_ task:
	when _artifact2_ and _S.15_ 
	place item _aurielshield_ at _dungeon2_ 
	log 1051 step 2 
	say 1032 
	drop _child_ face
--moved "drop face" here, was not cooperating in S.15
Something must be failing at a more fundamental level, I think.

Quest source

Falci
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Re: [0.10.23] The Artifact Quest

Post by Falci »

Jay_H wrote: Tue May 12, 2020 3:55 am The game is coded to only let you accept that quest one time, pass or fail. It'll never come up again for that character ;)
...
Is that a DFU design decision or from classic? UESP says that it is possible to take the quest various times, even getting the same artifact multiple times. Anyway, that's incredibly sad. :cry:

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Jay_H
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Re: [0.10.23] The Artifact Quest

Post by Jay_H »

It is DFU-specific -- classic's insistence on repeating every quest was good and bad, and in many cases detrimental (like with the Lord K'avar quests). It's a balance decision, to make sure you can't store up 200 Chrysameres or Lord's Mail (are they really that valuable if hundreds of them exist? :lol: ). With magic item repairs, many of the artifacts can be preserved, so you won't miss those ones forever. It's just a way to ensure you properly use and treasure the artifacts you do get.

Falci
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Re: [0.10.23] The Artifact Quest

Post by Falci »

I don't mind not being able to get multiple copies of a single artifact and I do agree they should be kept to single instances, what I would like is to be able to get the other two artifacts the quest can give.

This is were I think it's a loss.

I'm not familiar with Daggerfall's quest systems to understand if it would be possible to alter it to be offered once per artifact, or even to award random magic items, fake artifacts if you will, should the true ones have already been awarded, but I think it would be a better solution than to outright block the quest and the possibility to get the other two.

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Jay_H
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Re: [0.10.23] The Artifact Quest

Post by Jay_H »

It's a decision I made alone and haven't consulted Interkarma on it, so you could appeal there if you choose. I do think this is the better way -- Daggerfall has always been an unforgiving, RNG-based game in the vein of roguelikes -- but I haven't counseled with anyone on how to do it.

Falci
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Re: [0.10.23] The Artifact Quest

Post by Falci »

I'd argue that even if it's unforgiving, it's also very easily exploitable (as all Elder Scrolls are, in one way or another).

Personally, my build is not dependent on the artifacts (I've actually dumped Auriel's Shield in the ship's hold), and I've always found the artifacts throughout the games to be a bit lacking (save for Oghma Infinium and Azura's Star) compared to what you can actually build yourself with enchantments. But I also like to go on collecting them for bragging rights.

And I understand that it also boils down to how one approaches the game, I've seen quite a few people around here asking for more restrictive rules to be implemented in the game because they like to role play specific character types, but I like playing the normal dude striving for godhood, and it's very sad to see options removed from the game just because some people like to play it in a certain way and not another (or worse, they don't want to feel tempted to play another way because it's easier or more convenient).

I'm sure Interkarma has a lot in his mind already. If he happens upon this thread and decides to intervene, that will be nice, but other than that, I'll accept your choice of implementation. ;)

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Interkarma
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Re: [0.10.23] The Artifact Quest

Post by Interkarma »

I do trust Jay's instincts here. Other sources of artifacts are one-shot kind of deals, and getting an artifact should be a special moment rather than something we can grind duplicates of endlessly.

But there is friction between classic and DFU here also. As there are multiple artifacts available from this quest source, and classic allows it to be repeated, we could argue this was an intentional design choice. It doesn't look like a bug.

I don't have strong feelings either way, and I'm happy to hear feedback from others. If the general consensus is this should match classic and allow repeating, then it's a simple change to make. :)

Falci
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Re: [0.10.23] The Artifact Quest

Post by Falci »

Thanks for the input. :)

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Hazelnut
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Re: [0.10.23] The Artifact Quest

Post by Hazelnut »

This should match classic according to (IIRC) research from Allofich who found the UESP interpretation that I'd implemented was wrong and I updated this accordingly. This quest name is B0B71Y03 and the '1' indicates it's a one time quest. Not sure if there was an exception for this quest, or the one time quest doesn't work at all in classic - but if Allofich found code to interpret it that way it must have been intentional.

Anyway it's this way in DFU because that's what we think/thought classic did. it's a pain to test this in classic due to the random quest offers, but before changing this I think someone would need to prove it beyond reasonable doubt..
See my mod code for examples of how to change various aspects of DFU: https://github.com/ajrb/dfunity-mods

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