Questing: Place Resource

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Interkarma
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Questing: Place Resource

Post by Interkarma » Fri May 05, 2017 3:26 am

New post describes the Place resource and selecting buildings for quests. I go through some of my challenges in bringing together two sets of different but related data.

http://www.dfworkshop.net/questing-place-resource/

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Jay_H
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Re: Questing: Place Resource

Post by Jay_H » Fri May 05, 2017 5:22 am

Reading the post, I'm curious... Which do you think would have been more complicated: writing a game similar to Daggerfall from scratch, or recreating Daggerfall in Unity? It feels like there are a lot of quirks that you have to bind yourself to as you make DFU, but I can't tell if there would be any easy alternative. (I ask "complicated" rather than "time-consuming" since I'm certain writing a new game from scratch would take more time.)

And thank you for the post! :)
Check out the Daggerfall Unity mod page on ModDB.

I rarely read instructions well the first time. Tell me to re-read them. I'll do it.

Narf the Mouse
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Re: Questing: Place Resource

Post by Narf the Mouse » Fri May 05, 2017 5:38 am

Jay_H wrote:Reading the post, I'm curious... Which do you think would have been more complicated: writing a game similar to Daggerfall from scratch, or recreating Daggerfall in Unity? It feels like there are a lot of quirks that you have to bind yourself to as you make DFU, but I can't tell if there would be any easy alternative. (I ask "complicated" rather than "time-consuming" since I'm certain writing a new game from scratch would take more time.)

And thank you for the post! :)
Game mechanics are not easy. There's a reason major studios leave them up to professionals. ;)

Edit: Having read the blog post, Daggerfall's design is really quite brilliant in many ways. And, to quote a developer quote I saw somewhere, *"...made with no plan, no backup, and no clue."

* AFAIR
Previous experience tells me it's very easy to misunderstand the tone, intent, or meaning of what I've posted. If you have questions, ask.

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Interkarma
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Re: Questing: Place Resource

Post by Interkarma » Fri May 05, 2017 6:01 am

Jay_H wrote:Reading the post, I'm curious... Which do you think would have been more complicated: writing a game similar to Daggerfall from scratch, or recreating Daggerfall in Unity? It feels like there are a lot of quirks that you have to bind yourself to as you make DFU, but I can't tell if there would be any easy alternative. (I ask "complicated" rather than "time-consuming" since I'm certain writing a new game from scratch would take more time.)

And thank you for the post! :)
Ignoring the need for assets like art, sound, and music for a moment, I'd say both would be of roughly equal complexity in different ways. In my own game, I might be free to engineer things directly in a manner that makes sense to me - but like Narf says, developing the gameplay is a huge job in its own right. Any time I save in reverse engineering would probably be consumed by searching through gameplay concepts to find the fun.

Then once you throw the need for other assets on top of the programming pile, I'd say the needle tilts more towards an original game as being the harder of the two projects. Right now, I'd feel pretty safe in saying that rebuilding Daggerfall in a new engine is easier than creating a new game from scratch.

This has been a great learning exercise for me. Not just in Unity and general game development, but in code review, teamwork, and community management. Despite all of that, I still consider myself a raw hobbyist. I would not consider my skillset anywhere near that of a professional game developer.

I will be up front though - I very badly want to create something of my own and grow beyond what I've learned so far. I tried to make time for a small project of my own not long ago, but simply couldn't juggle the mind-space required for a full-time job, a family, other hobbies, and build two game projects on the side. I've pulled back a bit and will just concentrate on getting Daggerfall Unity to a singularity point where it can grow with community help. I'd say once quests and spells are mostly operational, I'll be able to step back and refocus on my own project again.

And you're welcome for the post! Thank you guys for getting me motivated just to write something. :)

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Interkarma
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Re: Questing: Place Resource

Post by Interkarma » Fri May 05, 2017 6:24 am

Narf the Mouse wrote: Edit: Having read the blog post, Daggerfall's design is really quite brilliant in many ways. And, to quote a developer quote I saw somewhere, *"...made with no plan, no backup, and no clue."

* AFAIR
Completely agree. Julian is definitely one of those madly gifted polymath game developers. The more I peel back Daggerfall's construction, the more impressed I am with how it all hangs together.

I like your quote "...made with no plan, no backup, and no clue." I think this is part of the honesty I enjoy about Daggerfall. It's raw, ambitious, and made on pure instinct. For every failing, Daggerfall has a redeeming glint of genius tucked away elsewhere. It works in spite of itself and never feels over-designed.

Many games are so frictionless, I just slide right off. I like the jagged edge of design that hurts and frustrates me in games like Daggerfall. It's just more interesting to me.

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Re: Questing: Place Resource

Post by Narf the Mouse » Fri May 05, 2017 6:36 am

Interkarma wrote:
Narf the Mouse wrote: Edit: Having read the blog post, Daggerfall's design is really quite brilliant in many ways. And, to quote a developer quote I saw somewhere, *"...made with no plan, no backup, and no clue."

* AFAIR
Completely agree. Julian is definitely one of those madly gifted polymath game developers. The more I peel back Daggerfall's construction, the more impressed I am with how it all hangs together.

I like your quote "...made with no plan, no backup, and no clue." I think this is part of the honesty I enjoy about Daggerfall. It's raw, ambitious, and made on pure instinct. For every failing, Daggerfall has a redeeming glint of genius tucked away elsewhere. It works in spite of itself and never feels over-designed.

Many games are so frictionless, I just slide right off. I like the jagged edge of design that hurts and frustrates me in games like Daggerfall. It's just more interesting to me.
...That, is basically how I feel about D&D 3.5. And yes, I've tried to fix that.

It's like someone made a beautiful, functioning piece of machinery...Then ran amok in it with a monkey wrench.

My mind draws parallels... There's a spark of genius that could work really well in 3.5... It just can't work as-is. I've tried. So many systems are badly adjusted or created, you basically need to replace parts wholesale to get it functioning.

And then it ends up feeling like "not 3.5"
Previous experience tells me it's very easy to misunderstand the tone, intent, or meaning of what I've posted. If you have questions, ask.

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Jay_H
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Re: Questing: Place Resource

Post by Jay_H » Fri May 05, 2017 6:26 pm

I remember the creator of AM2R saying that even though his project was nuked via cease and desist, he felt that the skills he built up making the game more than made up for it; he came out of it without a game but with a strong career. I'd be happy if things went as well for you :) In any case I'll look forward to more posts, whenever they come.
Check out the Daggerfall Unity mod page on ModDB.

I rarely read instructions well the first time. Tell me to re-read them. I'll do it.

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King of Worms
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Re: Questing: Place Resource

Post by King of Worms » Sat May 06, 2017 9:00 pm

I enjoy every update you post and read it with big interest, thanks for the article Interkarma. I can imagine this part - questing - is really hard. I wish you good luck in the development process and I thank you for the time you devote towards this amazing project!

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LypyL
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Re: Questing: Place Resource

Post by LypyL » Sat May 06, 2017 9:52 pm

Great update as always! I think your solution for the generic houses & quest data is great, especially at this at this stage. Someone will probably figure out how it works in Daggerfall exactly and we'll both facepalm over how obvious it was :lol:

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