The DaggerXL Awekens

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Tirbourse
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The DaggerXL Awekens

Post by Tirbourse »

http://xlengine.com/xl-engine-source-code/

Lucius came back this week and release the full source code for the XL Engine
I think it's a very good news for dagerfall's community, i also wonder if we can use parts of his work

What do you think?

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Nystul
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Re: The DaggerXL Awekens

Post by Nystul »

I am happy to see it being available to the community ;)
I took a look at the code - he basically threw away/stripped off any game related stuff and is starting over with focus on the engine.
I expect that it will take a while till daggerfall related stuff will get integrated again - then it will really get interesting

nevertheless I am a big unity fan now since interkarma's project has become that polished and mature. and unity in my opinion is really approachable in terms of required effort for getting started or just for contributing small additions or whatever.

nevertheless I expect to see an excellent engine once lucius gets his project done! He seems to be incredibly skilled and my chin literally dropped to the ground when I first saw the extreme view distance video of daggerxl years ago ;)
especially his reverse engineering efforts would result in very interesting insights if he is going to share the obtained information.

So I am just happy that both projects exist and are in active development ;)

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Interkarma
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Re: The DaggerXL Awekens

Post by Interkarma »

So far no game-specific code, just the engine framework, so not many details to go on yet. Other than that, I'm very happy to see XLEngine is still alive and will be receiving regular updates again. There are a few games in the XLEngine lineup I would personally enjoy playing at higher resolutions.

As for Daggerfall, there are some key differences in approach that make each project unique. Here's a short summary for anyone interested.

XLEngine

Approach: Decompiling of FALL.EXE back to C/C++. Manual naming of decompiled variables & functions, and updating code with new features and improvements.

Pros
  • You get the full game right off the bat (because it's the same code), with some immediate improvements like higher resolutions and better default controls.
  • Does not rely on a closed source engine.
  • Will remain very true to Daggerfall as it's essentially a source-port.
  • Can target very low-end devices.
Cons
  • Initially, will have many of the same problems as Daggerfall (because it's the same code). At least being open source these can all be fixed over time.
  • Depending on future tools development, may not be highly extensible long term and may not be appealing to casual mod creators and developers.
  • Developer is not focused on Daggerfall exclusively. XLEngine is promising to support a total of 4 games so far, with more to come. Those other games also require time and attention.

Daggerfall Unity

Approach: Reverse engineering of file formats, full re-implementation in C#. Everything has a tools-first approach from API up to game code.

Pros
  • Code is well understood, documented, and supported - as opposed to decompiled code from 20 years ago.
  • Unity has a community of over 2 million developers and asset creators to draw from and share with. The impact of this developer community cannot be overstated and confers huge downstream benefits for mod creation and enhancements.
  • Easy-to-use editor on top of a powerful commercial-level engine. Engine comes with all this stuff out of the box and Daggerfall Tools for Unity adds all this stuff (and more) just for Daggerfall.
  • Highly extensible and very creator-friendly. Examples of mods already created using DFTFU are here, here, here, here, here, and more here.
  • Development is focused exclusively on Daggerfall.
Cons
  • Relies on a closed source engine, albeit one of the most popular in the world currently.
  • Requires time to reverse engineer formats and implement features, so game will not be fully playable as quickly.
  • May not always match Daggerfall behaviours 1:1 in features due to re-implementation process. That said, I'm very happy with how true things are to Daggerfall so far.
  • Excludes very low-end devices - although overall platform compatibility is still potentially very broad.
At the end of the day, both projects have a lot to offer. We can even help each other as information is shared between us. There's a very good chance you'll be seeing work come out of both camps for years to come, so the real winners are the Daggerfall community at large. Exactly with this wonderful old game deserves. :)

Aliem
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Joined: Sun Jun 28, 2015 9:12 am

Re: The DaggerXL Awekens

Post by Aliem »

Wow, I cannot believe there was actual movement over there. I'm impressed, though honestly too jaded by the XL project to go beyond that.

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Biboran
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Re: The DaggerXL Awekens

Post by Biboran »

Wow! It will be awesome if he finish Dark Forces.
For Dagerfall I prefer this project. :D
Spoiler!
And for Blood - remake on eDuke32 if this is not dead

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Nystul
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Re: The DaggerXL Awekens

Post by Nystul »

he disappeared again. months since he last gave an update. I don't get it honestly...

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Jay_H
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Re: The DaggerXL Awekens

Post by Jay_H »

I'm sure he's doing the best he can; he's probably the one who wants it released the most. If it comes out soon, we have something to tide us over for Daggerfall Unity; if it comes out later, Daggerfall Unity can tide us over for it :D (Though I see more long-term potential in DFU, both projects are fantastic.)

Narf the Mouse
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Re: The DaggerXL Awekens

Post by Narf the Mouse »

Having worked on making my own game engine as a hobby, I can tell you it is not easy.

...Well, ok, if you download a graphics lib, an audio lib, a GUI lib, etc., and glue them together, it'd be a lot easier.

But if you make one from scratch, then pretty much the only things harder (that I know enough about to venture an opinion) are making your own compiler from scratch, and making your own OS (from a *kit, even). In ascending order of difficulty.

* The closest you'll find is the Cosmos OS project, and it still requires a lot of assembly programming if you expect to get anywhere.
Previous experience tells me it's very easy to misunderstand the tone, intent, or meaning of what I've posted. If you have questions, ask.

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