Games like Daggerfall?

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Games like Daggerfall?

Post by mtrredux » Mon Jul 29, 2019 2:14 am

Wanted to get the communities to give feedback on games that are in the spirit of Daggerfall.
Any recommendations are welcome.
Especially any Obscure indie games you might recommend.

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Re: Games like Daggerfall?

Post by Narf the Mouse » Mon Jul 29, 2019 4:57 am

Skip the first and third sets of lines to get the real info. ;)

Well, there's this game Arena; some people say it's like Daggerfall, only better.
There's another game Morrowind that's fairly similar, only with a linear storyline and pre-designed quests.
The game Oblivion is thought by many to be quite different, but the NPCs are more dynamic than almost any other game, which is congruent with Daggerfall.
I've played another fairly popular game called Skyrim; it's really quite different. Sort of a combination of Morrowind's predesigned quests and storylines with an enhanced version of Oblivion's combat and perks system. The NPCs are a lot more scripted, though, and it is an Action RPG, not a full-on RPG.

I've heard a number of things about the Grand Theft Auto series; it seems to combine pre-designed quests with dynamic quests and wandering (but not dynamic) NPCs.
The Assassin's Creed line of games seem much like the Grand Theft Auto series, save that instead of typical play being that of a Chaotic Evil criminal, typical play is that of a Chaotic Good or Chaotic Neutral assassin.
The Red Dead Redemption line of games seems much like the Grand Theft Auto games, only with more redemption, and in the Mythical Wild West, as opposed to Action Movie Modern, I suppose.

The Fallout line of games also combine an open world with predesigned quests; some of the games also have dynamic quests. Fallout 1&2 are 2D, while the remainder are 3D and are much more towards being Action RPGs.

Elite: Dangerous is very much like Daggerfall, only in Space!
Minecraft may not, at first, seem to have much in common with Daggerall, but there probably are some heavy RP servers out there.
No Man's Sky seems to be somewhere between Elite: Dangerous and Minecraft, and the game has (reportedly) much improved since launch.
Finally, of course, there's sitting around a table with a bunch of paper, pencils, dice, and rulebooks. ;)
Previous experience tells me it's very easy to misunderstand the tone, intent, or meaning of what I've posted. If you have questions, ask.

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Re: Games like Daggerfall?

Post by MrFlibble » Thu Aug 01, 2019 9:00 pm

It is indeed rather weird that RPGs similar to Daggerfall seem to be extremely hard to come by.

Undoubtedly of interest, if only historical, should be Legends of Valour, which is in fact one of the titles that is known to have inspired Arena (and if it weren't known you'd immediately spot the similarities). Same goes for Ultima Underworld except this one is more widely known and popular.

I'm not sure if Arx Fatalis may count because I never played it myself but it seems to share some similarities to TES games while taking place in a underground world like Ultima Underworld.

When thinking on the topic of which games may truly count as similar to Daggerfall I would often try to outline the features that make DF what it is, at least for me.

I believe that, first and foremost, it's the random quests that will throw you around the game world in a much unpredictable fashion that make up a great deal of fun playing DF for me. Incidentally this is what was completely removed from Morrowind, to my disappointment. However I don't feel that the same kind of random quests but in a space mercenary/trader setting is about as much fun as in a medieval fantasy world.

Daggerfall tries very hard to be a convincing imitation of a living world. The day/night cycle, shop closing times, seasons and weather changing, and of course the attempt to make almost every possible location explorable in first-person with unrestrained movement (rather than treating you to static images of shops, inns, temples etc. as in many other first-person RPGs) all contribute to this. Of course, the illusion of a real world alone, even if accomplished successfully, does not automatically mean that the game setting will be convincing or appealing to the player. There's also extensive lore background on factions, nations, rulers, myths and so on, which was ultimately to create a dynamic world that would change regardless of the player yet could be influenced by the player's choices but that turned out to be a task too daunting and was not fully realised in the game.

Nevertheless I quite like the setting in DF, and although Morrowind certainly puts a lot of effort into seamlessly interweaving in-game lore, plot and gameplay, some of the more "mundane" aspects that were done away with (like arriving late in a town and having to rent a room and sleep before you could go shopping the next day) are very nice to have in DF and Arena.

The whole skill training system is what I like a lot in DF, especially the part that you need to rest before a skill gets an increase. I believe at least some roguelikes have a similar skill system. On the whole, the game is very focused on building up your resources, and it does not really get tedious or a chore. There's a lot of randomness in what equipment you get, either from shops or from dungeons, and the fact that you simply can't check out every shop in every town to find what you need (you could but that would be too time-consuming an effort) contributes to this feel of realism and consistency while increasing variety between playing sessions.

Confusingly large dungeons are also fun for me! Not always though, some are really bad. But you do get this feeling that you're braving real obstacles rather than just walk around in predesigned decorations to fight monsters in.

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Re: Games like Daggerfall?

Post by Teralitha » Fri Aug 02, 2019 2:55 am

Apart from other elder scrolls games, here is a list of games that I think are similar enough you would like them:

1. Dungeon Lords(CE "Collectors Edition") Can only be found on disk I believe. Steam has a different version of dungeon lords , and its terrible. I dont recommend it.

2. Gothic 2 Night Of The Raven - On steam, and probably on GoG too. The game has sequels and followups.

3. Birthright:Gorgons Alliance - A really old game, not sure if you can still find it anymore. Can only run on Dosbox

4. The Four Crystals Of Trazere - Google the name and you can find links to game download. Very old gem and a challenging game, but also very cool. Many complex dungeon puzzles to figure out with no help. your party can take part in large scale battles against armies of mythical enemies if you choose, and if you are strong enough.

5. Bards Tale trilogy. The original bards tale games that is, not the lame remakes. Can be found with google.

6. Might & Magic games.(Not to be confused with "Heroes of Might & Magic" A completely different kind of game.) Yet another ancient dungeon crawler. Somewhat similar to ultima games, and also similar to bards tale. I believe it can be found on sega emulator/rom sites.

You can likely find youtube videos of all these games to see the gameplay.

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Re: Games like Daggerfall?

Post by MrFlibble » Sat Aug 03, 2019 8:24 pm

Teralitha wrote:
Fri Aug 02, 2019 2:55 am
3. Birthright:Gorgons Alliance - A really old game, not sure if you can still find it anymore. Can only run on Dosbox
Pretty sure Birthright has a Windows version too, and AFAIK it heavily leans towards grand strategy with some role-playing elements. There's a couple of demo versions, one for DOS and one (more recent) for Windows, you can get them here.
Teralitha wrote:
Fri Aug 02, 2019 2:55 am
5. Bards Tale trilogy. The original bards tale games that is, not the lame remakes. Can be found with google.
I only tried the Bard's Lore and Bard's Quest spin-offs (built with Interplay's Bard's Tale Construction Set), and I must say these have a lot more grind and a lot less role-playing than in Daggerfall IMO. I found a good summary of these games here (from a dedicated CRPG player*). They're certainly interesting from a historical point of view, and maybe enjoyable on their own merit, but I would not say that they're similar to Daggerfall.

*The same site has detailed play-throughs of the original Bard's Tale games, and also of the very similar Dragon Wars.

I'd love to learn more about other RPGs that have at least some gameplay similarities as Daggerfall, because I'm actually not very knowledgeable in the genre. But so far it seems to me that a lot of older titles, while some being quite respectable games, lack the depth, randomness, open-worldness and non-linearity that are characteristic of Daggerfall.

I would say that the following elements in Daggerfall are not really essential (at least, to me):
  • first-person perspective
  • real-time combat
  • paperdoll inventory/dress my PC minigame
  • having only a single character
  • various playable races
There's a couple of respectably aged games with what seems like a vast world and not particularly linear gameplay, and that's Realms of Arkania: Blade of Destiny and its sequel, Star Trail. I haven't really played them so I can't vouch how close they are to DF. You have a whole party and combat is turn-based from an isometric view. No guilds to join and rank through as far as I know. It's pretty in-depth anyway. Both have modern remakes available.The third game in the series is limited to a single city and I think the plot is more linear, no remade version as of yet I think.

My attention also caught another RPG called Age of Decadence, which has an interesting setting - a cross of declining Roman Empire with fantasy elements. It seems fairly deep and you can play a wide variety of character types with different backgrounds. I haven't dared to try out even the demo that floats around after chancing upon a 45-minute video showing character generation alone.

I believe Mount & Blade should be fairly close to Daggerfall in being open-world and in the way combat works (it's in third person though). However I think there are no dungeons at all, instead you have battles involving not only your character but also whatever troops and companions that follow you, usually in fields. It is generally a medieval knight simulator above anything else, set in a fictional but non-fantasy world. There are fantasy mods for this as far as I know. UPD: Here's a mod that adds dungeon crawling: Light & Darkness: Heroes of Calradia.

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Re: Games like Daggerfall?

Post by Teralitha » Sun Aug 04, 2019 2:56 am

The games I listed I have played, and I say they have similarities. Some more than others. Birthright can be played with only dungeon adventures. Only battlefield wars, only turn based strategy, or all 3 together. Its the only game of its kind. I listed it because of the dungeons adventures.

I listed bards tale also for the massive dungeon crawling. Each of those games I listed have massive dungeon crawling opportunities similar to daggerfalls.

Age of decadence is nothing like daggerfall in any way, apart that its sort of an rpg. They have released a demo you can try before you buy.

Mount & Blade is also nothing like daggerfall whatsoever. No dungeons, and its not even an RPG. I suggest you try those games I listed before judging.

I am not familiar with the other games you mentioned.

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Re: Games like Daggerfall?

Post by Ommamar » Sun Aug 04, 2019 3:31 pm

I guess it would depend on your definition of similar, is it about character development and dungeon crawling, about the ability to own property and a wide range of factions, the fact that how you advance the main quest and who you ally with can achieve different "endings" in the world? How old of a game are you willing to deal with? Some games I have enjoyed in the past are Ultima IV which I think was the pinnacle of that series, the Wizardry series particularly Wizardry 8 but if your a gluten for punishment you can take a party from Wizardry 6 to 8. If you do that you get different starting equipment and interactions in the both 7 and 8. But I will warn you Wizardry 6 is not the most intuitive game to figure out and can be quite unforgiving. Arcanum of steamworks and magic obscura (best with GOG version) gives you a huge range of ways to build your character that effects how the world is interacted with. The world is huge and you can align yourself with many factions that will affect how the story develops.
There are some more modern games like the Baldur gate series (even hearing rumblings of a BG 3), Dragon Age series, Mass Effect up to the first 3. There are also the single player Fallout games while I have enjoyed them (except the first one that hidden time period to complete things when it was released just pissed me off) I do feel they have fallen into the lets stream line features to make it more palatable for a "modern" audience. Resulting in us losing a lot of the flavor of what made the previous games great.
I think probably the most "like" Daggerfall newer game I have played is Kingdome come:Deliverance, you don't get to make a different character but there is a huge world that allows for a wide range of how you complete goals, who you interact with and when also seems to make a huge difference. Probably 65% though the story but I have watched others play who made different choices and got a different experience. Divinity Original Sin II and Witcher 3 maybe but for what ever reason I can't seem to play them for very long.

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