Will you purchase TES VI?

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dashyr89
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Re: Will you purchase TES VI?

Post by dashyr89 » Sun Nov 10, 2019 9:24 am

Ommamar wrote:
Sun Nov 10, 2019 6:37 am
I see what you are saying, it reminded me of an old defunct game called Vanguard: Saga of Heroes. Brad McQuaid the same guy who was given a lot of credit for Everquest's design was the driving force behind it. Great designer but not to good at business as things went south and he ended up selling the game to Sony. Initially in that game you could do really crazy things to mess your build up. It allowed you to make equipment in a certain way where you would be very powerful in certain situations and weak as hell in others. I remember I got a harvester at level 12 to the top tier of the harvestable items the problem was the items where all in high level zones with level 60 mobs, the only way I could play it was with a full group of at least level 55 characters to protect me while I harvested. Once Sony got control of the game that design went away and it came very cookie cutter, very similar to Everquest 2 which was probably one of the main reasons Sony shut it down. I always loved that the game would allow you to gimp yourself if you choice to take that route but that is rare from what I have seen of modern games.
The main issue is that the main demographic today are casuals. I got nothing personal about them but they do have a tendency to prefer power fantasies over actual deep RPG systems. Reason being simple... they do not commit to games. They don't or can't invest the time in the game. So they prefer to have all the stuff from the get go. Let's face it... we love the progression not because a level 1 character is fun to play. But because when we hit that high level and start wrecking shit we feel rewarded because we had to earn it. That long journey of micromanaging our character, balancing our equipment and carefully progressing in the environment culminates with our character ascending to near godhood. (Figuratively.) Skyrim... Basicly go. "Hey, you are dragonborn and super special. You litterally succ dragon souls. Now take that knowledge with you and go wreck shit." within what.... the first hour?

The usual defense I get from people when I bring up that point is: "But, he is the Dragonborn!". Because of wich I cannot help myself but smiles as I reply: "Well, in Morrowind I was a reincarnated Dark Elf christ figure. Well, no... I actually had to earn even that."

Ommamar
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Re: Will you purchase TES VI?

Post by Ommamar » Sun Nov 10, 2019 6:03 pm

I have always enjoyed the journey more then ascending to gaming "god hood" but I am a strange guy who loves making different builds that I get to end game then start over. I have managed to finish the "main" story in at least 50% of the games of late.
Dark elves are skeptical folk where Nords would seem to be more accepting of someone being able to utilize dragon souls. I know what you are saying though and one of the problems with ESO is it is hard to sell people as the "One" when there are thousands of others going through the same thing with in view of you. I won't say it is a new conundrum as it has been a facet of RPGs for a long time with very few games able to pull of a sell able your just a person in the world vibe.
I do agree with the demographic shift evaluation, I think with Daggerfall there was more of a "You want to do what?!" "MMM okay give it a go" feel where today the same artistic push the edge idea is met with no this is what sells so do that. There is some indy games that are more artistic or innovative but often poorly implemented and not financially as successful as the cookie cutter stuff the larger companies are willing to put out.

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jayhova
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Re: Will you purchase TES VI?

Post by jayhova » Tue Nov 12, 2019 5:50 am

Over time TES games have become IMHO less open world and more like being herded down a cattle shoot where someone has figured out how the story will work and you are just along for the ride. I never completed Daggerfall, Morrowind or Oblivion. Of those 3, I liked Oblivion the least and just gave up playing after a while. The leveling felt terribly artificial. Okay, you've leveled and now bandits are wearing glass armor. Bleh! The game right off the bat gave you a feeling of powerlessness. Okay, the Emporer is going to die and you can't stop it. Shut up this is our story and you are just along for the ride. The whole thing felt contrived. Skyrim I did finish because the whole game was a powertrip. Everything there was easy enough to constantly make me feel clever without having to struggle with too much thinking.

Arena made me really engaged. There was a bad guy and he was really bad and wanted me dead. I wanted to defeat him and I struggled to do so.

Daggerfall did not engage me the way Arena did. I was less interested in the main quest as I was being in the world. After the Emporer's message, there was no personal connection. There was no threat to me. I could just wander off and do as I pleased. and I did.

Morrowind was all about exploring an alien landscape. I was very disappointed that the game was so small. Todd Howard was not a roleplayer. This shows, as games he develops are stories where you are along for the ride. Eventually, there were no more neato things to see and I lost interest.

Oblivion was small like Morrowind and had nothing very interesting in it. The leveled world broke verisimilitude for me and I very quickly lost interest.

Skyrim had Dragons! Things were interesting again and the game totally went about holding my hand and making me feel nothing was impossible and I could not fail because really that's how that was. I really enjoyed the power of being a sniper. Most of my foes never saw me coming. That was an aspect of play I really enjoyed. It was stupid how NPCs would be shot, be unable to find me and then would forget I was even there.
Remember always 'What would Julian Do?'.
Windows 10 Pro 64 bit. DFU Ver. Alpha 0.10.7

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Ralzar
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Re: Will you purchase TES VI?

Post by Ralzar » Tue Nov 12, 2019 7:25 am

Ommamar wrote:
Sun Nov 10, 2019 6:03 pm
I have always enjoyed the journey more then ascending to gaming "god hood" but I am a strange guy who loves making different builds that I get to end game then start over. I have managed to finish the "main" story in at least 50% of the games of late.
This is where I am as well. The interesting part is of the game is creating a concept build and then seeing him/her struggle through whatever story Daggerfall throws your way. Once the game starts to get easy, I lose interest and make a new character.

I recently realized something about myself: If I start a game and it kills me in the tutotrial, I get a lot more interested in the game. Of course sometimes it turns out to just be a bad game, but I seem to be a lot more lenient with flaws in games if they just say from the get-go "I am going to try to kill you constantly. Try to stop me."
And Daggerfall fit right in that category. I can forgive Daggerfall all its flaws simply for how aggressively it tries to kill me at times :D

Ommamar
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Re: Will you purchase TES VI?

Post by Ommamar » Tue Nov 12, 2019 5:09 pm

Ralzar wrote:
Tue Nov 12, 2019 7:25 am
Ommamar wrote:
Sun Nov 10, 2019 6:03 pm
I have always enjoyed the journey more then ascending to gaming "god hood" but I am a strange guy who loves making different builds that I get to end game then start over. I have managed to finish the "main" story in at least 50% of the games of late.
This is where I am as well. The interesting part is of the game is creating a concept build and then seeing him/her struggle through whatever story Daggerfall throws your way. Once the game starts to get easy, I lose interest and make a new character.

I recently realized something about myself: If I start a game and it kills me in the tutotrial, I get a lot more interested in the game. Of course sometimes it turns out to just be a bad game, but I seem to be a lot more lenient with flaws in games if they just say from the get-go "I am going to try to kill you constantly. Try to stop me."
And Daggerfall fit right in that category. I can forgive Daggerfall all its flaws simply for how aggressively it tries to kill me at times :D
Have you played the main quest Daggerfall mod for Skyrim? That could get so ridiculous at points where you would literally have no chance until you had died a dozen times which allowed you to figure out what the hell was going on. It stayed pretty close to the original main quest but it was still better in DFU (I never got it done in original Daggerfall I would end up falling into the void somewhere along the way or get a corrupted save which would kill my desire to play for awhile) but if you have a couple days and want something novel for Skyrim I would give it a go.

dashyr89
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Re: Will you purchase TES VI?

Post by dashyr89 » Wed Nov 13, 2019 2:36 pm

I wanted to make a joke mod on Daggerfall about Skyrim...

But, there is just no way I'm going to beat that thing: https://youtu.be/n3cenpQ09_E

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