Chill out with thread locking, u start to behave downright hostile

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BadLuckBurt
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Re: Chill out with thread locking, u start to behave downright hostile

Post by BadLuckBurt » Wed Apr 29, 2020 8:55 am

No posts were deleted as far as I know and the dude flew off the handle by himself. Interkarma tried to explain how he could check out his work in DFU and his reaction to that wasnt exactly normal.
Daggerfall Unity on UESP: https://en.uesp.net/w/index.php?title=T ... fall_Unity
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King of Worms
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Re: Chill out with thread locking, u start to behave downright hostile

Post by King of Worms » Wed Apr 29, 2020 8:57 am

Interkarma wrote:
Wed Apr 29, 2020 8:50 am
King of Worms wrote:
Wed Apr 29, 2020 8:29 am
The way you guys just behaved to the person who made fonts for us - than deleted the posts so it doesnt look so bad. Locked all threads. Guys... you behave like scum. Ofcourse he is gone for ever - like everyone with at least a base self respect would be!

Im honestly disgusted
Nothing was deleted, why would you say that? Those topics were locked by an admin because the discussion could only go downhill from there. I support the decision to lock under the circumstances. The poster was even told multiple times that he would be welcomed back provided the uncivil behaviour did not continue. That is more than a fair outcome.

Please take a minute and consider that all we want to do is maintain the peace. And that creating a topic like this is only creating further drama for no purpose.

If you'd like to discuss with me directly, my PMs are open. Please everyone continue in a civil manner in this topic.
Ok so he deleted the posts where he shared his work - my bad - yet I completely understand it.

What was uncivil about his posts really? And do you think you handled the situation in more civil way than he did, to give others a leading example. I completely failed to see that :X

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King of Worms
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Re: Chill out with thread locking, u start to behave downright hostile

Post by King of Worms » Wed Apr 29, 2020 9:07 am

Guys I have nothing to add, I think what just happened was a failure on BOTH sides, and its just sad to see that :X
Im indeed off for a while. I love this community and find it extremely disapointing when I see situations like this
Be well everybody

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Baler
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Re: Chill out with thread locking, u start to behave downright hostile

Post by Baler » Wed Apr 29, 2020 9:08 am

We love you KoW!
You're one of my favorite people on these forums. :)
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JorisVanEijden
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Re: Chill out with thread locking, u start to behave downright hostile

Post by JorisVanEijden » Wed Apr 29, 2020 4:27 pm

From my point of view:
This guy comes barging in from nowhere, calls the results of all previous hard work crap. Acts like his font is the best font in the universe and he is here to save us all. Then when others have not done everything exactly the way he likes it he gets really upset and tells us what a bunch of amateurs we are. This is not tolerated and he leaves in a big huff.

I'm absolutely amazed by the calm and respectful manner in which Jay_H and Interkarma handled this.

*edit: it's Jay_H, not JayZ, doh.
Last edited by JorisVanEijden on Thu Apr 30, 2020 5:06 am, edited 1 time in total.

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DigitalMonk
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Re: Chill out with thread locking, u start to behave downright hostile

Post by DigitalMonk » Wed Apr 29, 2020 4:38 pm

Totally personal opinions from someone who has been developing software professionally for over 20 years and have run my own website and forums for my commercially produced applications. So I understand some of these dynamics, but these are ONLY my personal thoughts. Had to dig a bit to get from this thread to the one that set off the furor, but just read through it all, so...

First, KoW, yeah, love you, love the insane amount of work and dedication you've put into the project. Hope you stay.

But I gotta agree with Jay and Interkarma here. Dan chose to burn a huge amount of time before seeing if any of it would work in game -- that's very bad methodology right there. But Interkarma _DID_ provide useful instructions, INCLUDING the statement that the Unity Editor and a clone of the source code would be needed, AND showing how to slap literally any random TTF font into place in the game. But Dan didn't bother to read those instructions (or any of the other instructions about modding, all of which tell you clearly that you need the Unity Editor and a clone of the source), and then went off on a rant about bad methodology and basically calling the DFU team incompetent idiots (not in those words, but there's no other interpretation for the language that he used). Given that, and given the years and years of effort the team has given to DFU compared to the couple of days of frustration that Dan feels entitles him to be condescending, yeah, it needed to stop.

I've run forums before. I appreciate people's efforts and donations, but I don't appreciate people who think their bit is more important than anything else that's going on. These forums are open. Normal contributors ask how they can see their work in-game, and everybody on the forums is happy to help with instructions and guidance. I've seen it over and over. And it works for everybody else. But Dan couldn't be bothered, wasted a lot of his own time, chose to blame other people for his bad decisions, and then flamed his way out. Sorry, but there are MILLIONS of free fonts out there, and replacing the fonts will be trivial when that stage of the game development matters.

I _DO_ appreciate that he wanted to make things better, but that doesn't make it OK the way he treated others and their hard work. Were you ever that rude to Interkarma, Hazelnut, Pango, or any of the other people who have poured their souls into this engine as much as you have? How would you react if Dan had commented on your art resource tracking practices and complained about why he had to wait for you to distribute your newest DREAM package? I know how you would react, because I've seen it. AND YOU WERE JUSTIFIED to react that way, just like Interkarma and Jay were justified in their reaction.

Anytime you open the doors to the world, there's gonna be some friction between people and between expectations. Civil people can adjust and work with each other. Prima donnas can't. And, with the doors open to the world, you'll always find that there are civil people out there that are capable of contributing more than the prima donnas ever could. So. Yeah. Anyway. That's my 2 cents.

BadLuckBurt
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Re: Chill out with thread locking, u start to behave downright hostile

Post by BadLuckBurt » Wed Apr 29, 2020 5:15 pm

DigitalMonk wrote:
Wed Apr 29, 2020 4:38 pm
- snip
Well said, I agree 100%. Sorry for the snip but didn't want to make this thread unneccessary long :)
Daggerfall Unity on UESP: https://en.uesp.net/w/index.php?title=T ... fall_Unity
Daggerfall Unity on Nexus Mods: https://www.nexusmods.com/daggerfallunity
My github repositories with mostly DFU related stuff: https://github.com/BadLuckBurt

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mikeprichard
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Re: Chill out with thread locking, u start to behave downright hostile

Post by mikeprichard » Wed Apr 29, 2020 5:48 pm

JorisVanEijden wrote:
Wed Apr 29, 2020 4:27 pm
From my point of view:
This guy comes barging in from nowhere, calls the results of all previous hard work crap. Acts like his font is the best font in the universe and he is here to save us all. Then when others have not done everything exactly the way he likes it he gets really upset and tells us what a bunch of amateurs we are. This is not tolerated and he leaves in a big huff.

I'm absolutely amazed by the calm and respectful manner in which JayZ and Interkarma handled this.
Exactly this, +1000. Interkarma and Jay_H have far, far, far more patience than I could muster against such childish behavior. Having read the posts, I'm frankly not sure how anyone could see this differently, but to each their own.

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Interkarma
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Re: Chill out with thread locking, u start to behave downright hostile

Post by Interkarma » Wed Apr 29, 2020 8:01 pm

Thank you for your support everyone. It means more to me than you can know.

I can't help but feel KoW has somehow misread the situation here. I simply answered this Dan's tech question and genuinely thought I was doing him a solid. Instead of thanks or asking any followup questions, he lashes out with an unhinged spray at me, BadLuckBurt, and the project in general. Well yeah, that kind of behaviour is going to be shut down hard. I stand by moderator action in the face of that.

After getting beaten up by that guy, I'm then beaten up again by KoW who seems to think some pretty nefarious forum stuff has gone on. KoW, I love you man just like everyone else here. How many times have I helped you with tech stuff, even adding features to the game that you requested? Surely you know our character better than this by now. What's happening mate? My PMs are open.

Having slept on this, the whole thing is just bizarre and even a bit darkly funny. For myself, I'm going to take my two black eyes and get back to work. I'm also going to be more selective about when I choose to support people moving forwards. I just don't have time to work through drama, I'd rather use that time making stuff.

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Baler
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Re: Chill out with thread locking, u start to behave downright hostile

Post by Baler » Wed Apr 29, 2020 10:54 pm

May I propose a third option interkarma and allow me to explain prior. As the project has grown and continues to grow it attracts a wider and wider diverse audience. What ever their case may be they're here for DFU but they problem solve differently. With this it can create situations that are maybe not what 'relative' we want to see going on in this community.

So what I'm proposing is to take a more distanced relationship with the forums. You've brought us tremendously far and I'd hate to see you disheartened because you're being overwhelmed or aggravated by these 'outside the box' people.

I believe this community is at a point where it can self regulate and if that fails moderators can step in. Delegate some of the responsibility for your own sanity.

Please don't think I am trying to discourage you from posting. I think 'we' can take a load off your lap and you can focus your energy in more important areas. I really hope this makes sense and I don't come off like a rude jerk.
edit: And I do firmly believe this is your forum community, so if I have to go fly a kite. I'll accept that.
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