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Re Twitter

Posted: Sat May 20, 2017 7:39 am
by Jay_H
Interkarma, you sometimes post things on Twitter that I can't respond to since I don't tweet :) I was hoping to use one condensed thread to correspond with what you write, if that's all right. (And clearly this would also be everyone's thread, not just mine.) This'll also give me an organized place to react to some of the cool stuff you post as progress.
Interkarma wrote:More I think the different "modes" (steal, grab, info, talk) could be streamlined. The verb can be derived from context (e.g. crouch to steal). I'd love to hear everyone else's thoughts on this. How attached are you to the F1-F4 mode selection? Is it clunky or cool?
I'm only used to them because I've been playing Daggerfall for 20 years. I see them as an impediment to new Daggerfall players.

Grab and Talk are literally identical. Info has no overlap at all with Grab/Talk, so its purposes could be assimilated directly into Grab/Talk without losing anything. Stealing would require a different mode. Crouching is one option, if we called it "sneak" instead; Walking could be another option.

Re: Re Twitter

Posted: Sat May 20, 2017 2:20 pm
by Interkarma
Thank you for your feedback! So far, I've only had one person outright state they prefer the mode selection. Most seem to either not care or actively dislike it.

Another idea is click to activate/talk and a brief (e.g. ~300ms) click-and-hold for info. For example, click an NPC to speak with them or click-and-hold to just see their name as per info mode. The only odd mode out then is stealth/steal, which pretty much shares state with crouch in later ES games anyway.

I'll definitely keep the mode switches for purists, but I'd love to hear feedback from others around how they would prefer this to work as a quality of life enhancement. Nothing is decided yet and other suggestions are welcome. :)

Re: Re Twitter

Posted: Sat May 20, 2017 3:54 pm
by Arl
Maybe I'm the only weirdo that uses the hud to switch modes ha-ha, I just got used to play that way since at first I struggled with the functionality of the game, and when I finally discover the hotkeys it was too late for my brain to accommodate to it.

But I don't have any problem for thing to turn into a more intuitive way, I wish to have the option to maintain vanilla functionality of course, but since I'm asking and not doing I'm happy with anything you decide.

Re: Re Twitter

Posted: Sat May 20, 2017 5:09 pm
by Jay_H
Regarding "info" for people, maybe that could happen when you're outside conversation distance from them? If I'm two meters away it'll say "You see Bedyrick Hawkhart," and any closer would bring up the dialogue window.
Arl wrote:Maybe I'm the only weirdo that uses the hud to switch modes ha-ha, I just got used to play that way since at first I struggled with the functionality of the game, and when I finally discover the hotkeys it was too late for my brain to accommodate to it.
No, you're definitely not :) I'm surprised at the number of people I watch who use the HUD for that.

Re: Re Twitter

Posted: Sat May 20, 2017 5:25 pm
by LorrMaster42
I can never remember the binds, so I usually just use the HUD for modes.

Re: Re Twitter

Posted: Mon May 22, 2017 7:32 am
by Jay_H
Interkarma wrote:Implementing shop quality text. Do you prefer classic popup box (total of 2 clicks to enter store) or HUD text (1 click to enter store)?
How's this for shop quality text? An INI setting where:
0 = Classic popup
1 = HUD alternate
2 = Disabled
I think it's a very good idea to have the option. I myself would stick with classic but I'm certain the HUD could be far more convenient for a lot of modern players. You bring some great ideas out of nowhere! :)

Re: Re Twitter

Posted: Mon May 22, 2017 3:33 pm
by jman0war
I'm ambivalent.

I've been caught out numerous times accidently leaving the settings on Steal.
I play with HUD hidden from view (if that's what it's called).

Using a simple key bind to go into PickPocket/Steal/Lockpick mode would make sense.
I don't really see any necessity to be in that mode permanently.

'Sneak' is a good idea though, it further economizes things, I like it.

Re: Re Twitter

Posted: Mon May 22, 2017 11:15 pm
by Interkarma
Jay_H wrote:I think it's a very good idea to have the option. I myself would stick with classic but I'm certain the HUD could be far more convenient for a lot of modern players. You bring some great ideas out of nowhere! :)
I never really noticed until I implemented it, but the quality text actually blocks the player from entering shops until they click a second time. It's inconsistent as well - only shops and residences have a popup like this. Other doorway transitions are single click only. I realised that when playing DF, I unconsciously anticipate the second click instead of just entering the building like I wanted to.

That led to thinking about how to make single-click transitions every time where possible and still maintain the quality text. The settings grew from there. :)

Re: Re Twitter

Posted: Thu May 25, 2017 2:45 pm
by BansheeXYZ
I disagree with the people who say "we need vanilla options" for profound mechanical problems. We don't need to steal away the cursor from mouse-look to click on a button. It was a ridiculous design choice. Seriously, what next, are we going to have options to fall into the void? If you want to keep the HUD as a hotkey reference by simply overlaying an "S" onto the steal graphic (for example), then that's fine. But this isn't DOSBox, it's a modern engine of Daggerfall.

I like the idea of making click-and-hold "look" at things.

I've also made a suggestion in the past to get rid of the locking the viewpoint on weapon swing animations. Please look into that, it would make swinging/firing while strafing a million times better. This is also, of course, how modern first person games behave.

Re: Re Twitter

Posted: Thu May 25, 2017 4:38 pm
by Jay_H
BansheeXYZ wrote:I disagree with the people who say "we need vanilla options" for profound mechanical problems. We don't need to steal away the cursor from mouse-look to click on a button. It was a ridiculous design choice. Seriously, what next, are we going to have options to fall into the void? If you want to keep the HUD as a hotkey reference by simply overlaying an "S" onto the steal graphic (for example), then that's fine. But this isn't DOSBox, it's a modern engine of Daggerfall.
I believe your point is valid, and many of us would agree with it. I imagine Interkarma is cautious to not alter too many things too soon, for at least a couple of reasons:

1. The main goal of his work is to resurrect Daggerfall and make it moddable. Any GUI upgrades he makes will be conveniences but unrelated to his real purpose.
2. As noted above, there is some subset of people who use the old interface to play Daggerfall, be it out of old habit or nostalgia. Even if it isn't the default, leaving the option in for them would certainly be a good idea.