Daggerfall what is "X Per Level" in Magic?

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nekomaster
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Daggerfall what is "X Per Level" in Magic?

Post by nekomaster » Sat Feb 17, 2018 2:54 am

When Making magic or looking at the stats for magic stuff online, I notice theres a thing at the end of a string for what magic can do that says "Per Level", and for some cases increasing that decreases the Money and Spell cost of a spell.

What is this and what does it do? I've already made a couple of spells and while they seem to work I dont want to put days of work into a character only to find out the magic I made is screwed up in some way.

Right now I have a healing spell that does 10 - 25 + 1 - 1 per 5 levels, I wonder if I screwed that up (thoguh it does heal me and its not too expensive to cast for a Level 3 Khajiit battle mage)
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Aeuc
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Re: Daggerfall what is "X Per Level" in Magic?

Post by Aeuc » Sat Feb 17, 2018 3:44 am

Hello. I'm horrible at explaining things but have linked an old video that I had bookmarked which I used to understand spell making. Just skip forward in video to 11:45 and he explains the process. Hope it helps you. :)

https://youtu.be/mE92GD6LGLo?list=PLnf7 ... pyzHUTptCN

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nekomaster
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Re: Daggerfall what is "X Per Level" in Magic?

Post by nekomaster » Sat Feb 17, 2018 3:55 am

Aeuc wrote:Hello. I'm horrible at explaining things but have linked an old video that I had bookmarked which I used to understand spell making. Just skip forward in video to 11:45 and he explains the process. Hope it helps you. :)

https://youtu.be/mE92GD6LGLo?list=PLnf7 ... pyzHUTptCN
I watched the video you linked but they didn't really explain much.

I just wanted to know what the last number is when making spells (Per X Levels)

I should have worded my question better, rather then saying X per levels, which sounds ike I'm asking about the Base numbers for Magnitude or Chance, mean while I want to know what the last number is for (Per X levels)

So what difference does it make if I make a Fireball spell that is "5 - 10 + 1 - 1 Per 1 Level" versus "5 - 10 + 1 - 1 Per 5 Levels". Does it change how much damage it does? Does it change how much it advances my skills?

I'm very new to daggerfall and i've never really played any older Western style RPG's with dice roll mechanics and stuff so I have no idea what I'm really doing.
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paladin181
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Re: Daggerfall what is "X Per Level" in Magic?

Post by paladin181 » Sat Feb 17, 2018 4:04 am

nekomaster wrote:
Aeuc wrote:Hello. I'm horrible at explaining things but have linked an old video that I had bookmarked which I used to understand spell making. Just skip forward in video to 11:45 and he explains the process. Hope it helps you. :)

https://youtu.be/mE92GD6LGLo?list=PLnf7 ... pyzHUTptCN
I watched the video you linked but they didn't really explain much.

I just wanted to know what the last number is when making spells (Per X Levels)

I should have worded my question better, rather then saying X per levels, which sounds ike I'm asking about the Base numbers for Magnitude or Chance, mean while I want to know what the last number is for (Per X levels)

So what difference does it make if I make a Fireball spell that is "5 - 10 + 1 - 1 Per 1 Level" versus "5 - 10 + 1 - 1 Per 5 Levels". Does it change how much damage it does? Does it change how much it advances my skills?

I'm very new to daggerfall and i've never really played any older Western style RPG's with dice roll mechanics and stuff so I have no idea what I'm really doing.
It means you add the value. In your healing spell it does a base of 10-25 health recovery regardless of your level. The +x-y per z levels is a range of additional recovery (or damage depending on the spell) that is added every z levels. In your case, you only get 1-1 (so 1 additional health recovery) for every 5 levels. This spell will be nearly useless beyond level 1 or 2. I usually make a spell that heals 10-20 + 1-5 per 1 levels. That gives me 10-20 health recovery base magnitude +1 to 5 additional magnitude per character level. If I made it per 2 levels, it would add that for every other character level. per 3, then it would only add it every 3rd level.

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Interkarma
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Re: Daggerfall what is "X Per Level" in Magic?

Post by Interkarma » Sat Feb 17, 2018 4:09 am

When reading out the line, replace the dash "-" with the word "to" and it should be a lot clearer.

For example "+1-10 per 5 levels" literally means "plus 1 to 10 every 5 levels".

The 1-10 range is just a random number between 1 and 10 (inclusive). So if you have 1-1, this will always be +1 as the range is only inclusive of 1.

I hope that helps.

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Jay_H
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Re: Daggerfall what is "X Per Level" in Magic?

Post by Jay_H » Sat Feb 17, 2018 5:34 am

Just to make it explicitly clear: magic can become extremely broken once you get above level 3, assuming you never change the "levels" value above 1 (and you shouldn't because you hardly gain anything from doing so). A regeneration spell of at least 1+(3-3/level) power and a duration of 1+(1-1/level) makes you functionally invincible if you have armor equal to your level.

Level 3: heals 1+(9) every 5 seconds, 4 times = 40 health restored total
Level 4: heals 1+(12) every 5 seconds, 5 times = 65 health restored total
Level 5: heals 1+(15) every 5 seconds, 6 times = 96 health restored total

A damage-over-time spell that does 1+(5-5/level) damage for 1+(1-1/level) duration will start to roast any enemy you meet.

Level 3: 1+(15) damage every 5 seconds, 4 times = 64 damage total
Level 4: 1+(20) damage every 5 seconds, 5 times = 105 damage total
Level 5: 1+(25) damage every 5 seconds, 6 times = 156 damage total

The real kicker: per-level and initial values have the exact same cost. You can pay the same for a spell that has exponential growth or no growth at all :lol:

Yeah, there's a reason they took it out after Daggerfall. Sadly, though.
Check out the Daggerfall Unity mod page on ModDB.

I rarely read instructions well the first time. Tell me to re-read them. I'll do it.

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nekomaster
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Re: Daggerfall what is "X Per Level" in Magic?

Post by nekomaster » Sat Feb 17, 2018 9:59 pm

Jay_H wrote:Just to make it explicitly clear: magic can become extremely broken once you get above level 3, assuming you never change the "levels" value above 1 (and you shouldn't because you hardly gain anything from doing so). A regeneration spell of at least 1+(3-3/level) power and a duration of 1+(1-1/level) makes you functionally invincible if you have armor equal to your level.

Level 3: heals 1+(9) every 5 seconds, 4 times = 40 health restored total
Level 4: heals 1+(12) every 5 seconds, 5 times = 65 health restored total
Level 5: heals 1+(15) every 5 seconds, 6 times = 96 health restored total

A damage-over-time spell that does 1+(5-5/level) damage for 1+(1-1/level) duration will start to roast any enemy you meet.

Level 3: 1+(15) damage every 5 seconds, 4 times = 64 damage total
Level 4: 1+(20) damage every 5 seconds, 5 times = 105 damage total
Level 5: 1+(25) damage every 5 seconds, 6 times = 156 damage total

The real kicker: per-level and initial values have the exact same cost. You can pay the same for a spell that has exponential growth or no growth at all :lol:

Yeah, there's a reason they took it out after Daggerfall. Sadly, though.
So the Per X levels is like a multiplier or something?
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Jay_H
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Re: Daggerfall what is "X Per Level" in Magic?

Post by Jay_H » Sat Feb 17, 2018 10:04 pm

Yes. If you set the "levels" variable to 1, you'll gain the increase every 1 level. If you set it to 2, you'll gain it every 2 levels. And 3, and 4, and so on.

So if you make a spell that does 1 damage + (45 damage every 9 levels), it'll do 1 damage until you're level 9, and then on level 10 it'll do 46 damage, and at level 19 it'll do 91 damage.

The "levels" variable is quite bugged, in that raising it (thereby reducing your spell power) will only reduce spell cost at one point, and that's when you're moving from 1 to 2. Almost every value after 2, further diluting your spell power, will not reduce your spell cost. So you can make a spell that has an increase every 2 levels or every 8 levels and it'll cost exactly the same. There are very limited uses for this variable, so I generally stay away from it.
Check out the Daggerfall Unity mod page on ModDB.

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nekomaster
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Re: Daggerfall what is "X Per Level" in Magic?

Post by nekomaster » Sun Feb 18, 2018 1:11 am

Jay_H wrote:Yes. If you set the "levels" variable to 1, you'll gain the increase every 1 level. If you set it to 2, you'll gain it every 2 levels. And 3, and 4, and so on.

So if you make a spell that does 1 damage + (45 damage every 9 levels), it'll do 1 damage until you're level 9, and then on level 10 it'll do 46 damage, and at level 19 it'll do 91 damage.

The "levels" variable is quite bugged, in that raising it (thereby reducing your spell power) will only reduce spell cost at one point, and that's when you're moving from 1 to 2. Almost every value after 2, further diluting your spell power, will not reduce your spell cost. So you can make a spell that has an increase every 2 levels or every 8 levels and it'll cost exactly the same. There are very limited uses for this variable, so I generally stay away from it.
Oh so it is related to your actual character level then eh? So if i set a Spell that is 1 to 5 + 10 per 2 levels, then Level one I'll do 1 to 5 damage, but at level 2 I'll do 1 to 5 + 10 extra damage (if its set for 10 to 10).

have I got it right?
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Jay_H
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Re: Daggerfall what is "X Per Level" in Magic?

Post by Jay_H » Sun Feb 18, 2018 3:36 am

I believe the counter begins starting from level 1, so to take your example, it would scale up at level 3, 5, 7, and so on, each one being a step of every 2 levels. I'm not entirely sure whether it starts at level 1 or 0, though.
Check out the Daggerfall Unity mod page on ModDB.

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