[DFUnity] Spanish Translation

Discuss translation of Daggerfall Unity and the required Daggerfall installation. Help other communities learn how to translate Daggerfall using any available tools and processes.
Al-Khwarizmi
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Re: Spanish Translation

Post by Al-Khwarizmi » Thu Apr 12, 2018 7:41 am

Jay_H wrote:
Wed Apr 11, 2018 9:23 pm
I've never known anyone to object to neutral. All I know is Spain's spanish is not welcome among people I speak to :lol:
I wonder if that neutral ideal is worth pursuing or if it would be better in the long run to actually do more than one Spanish translation for different locales.

And the opposite here.. most Spanish people who know English prefer e.g. movies in English than in Latin American Spanish. Movies are always dubbed and subtitled differently in Spain because people probably wouldn't like them otherwise.

The problem with neutral Spanish is I'm not sure if it really exists, and if it exists, how does one know which words are neutral and which aren't. For example a bus is called autobús in Spain, ómnibus in Uruguay, colectivo in Argentina, which is supposed to be the neutral one? (not that there are many buses in Daggerfall, but it's the first example I could think of. There are many, I'm sure. Judía vs. poroto for example).

I'm a native Spanish speaker but I don't know if I'd be qualified to make a translation into "neutral Spanish" because I have no idea of which words are neutral and which aren't! (I do know some stuff like one shouldn't use "coger" for picking up an object outside Spain, at the risk of ending up in jail, lol).

I wonder if that neutral ideal is worth pursuing or if it would be better in the long run to actually do more than one Spanish translation for different locales.

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Arl
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Re: Spanish Translation

Post by Arl » Thu Apr 12, 2018 5:52 pm

Interesting, I guess it will all depends of wich scenarios you'll encounter in game in that regard. Daggerfall is "medieval fantasy", both latin spanish and spain spanish have diferent sets of medieval spanish "leftovers" so to speak.

Other issue is what gets translated and what gets not. I saw that Summerset Isle is called Isla de Estivalia, while the eponymous Daggerfall is not called Caida de Daga or something like that. By that principle we can also translate Skyrim and Morrowind to something like Borde del Cielo and Viento de la Mañana respectively.

All in all, theres a lot to consider and define for a translation, and a proper discusion and consensus about it is yet to be have.
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Gudadantza
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Re: Spanish Translation

Post by Gudadantza » Thu Apr 12, 2018 6:18 pm

As an example, one of the most alienating things in spanish Dungeons and Dragons was the fact that the toponimical names were translated. I disliked it because I am a defender of the original proper names, although that names being translated to spanish make sense and are very descriptive.
The reason it was done in that way, I guess, is because that names were not elf or fantasy languages, but english names (Neverwinter etc...) Considering that, I would have keep them untouched because, in fact, Dungeons and Dragons was originaly an anglosaxon product.

Something similar occurred in Tolkien books, this time translating even the surnames ( Bilbo Baggins/Bilbo Bolsón/ Bolsa=Bag in spanish) but if I am not wrong the newest translations/editions have the names in its original form. Not sure.

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delvisomanda
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Re: Spanish Translation

Post by delvisomanda » Thu Apr 12, 2018 9:56 pm

I like the discussion that's been going on here, and I'm gonna try to clear some things up. The translation started out as Neutral Spanish, but my "bad" habits have been turning it more towards Latin American Spanish. As far as translation is concerned, it tends towards the latter.
You can check it out by looking at the quests already translated. As you can see, it's consistent and has no drastic changes.

Al-Khwarizmi wrote:
Thu Apr 12, 2018 7:41 am
I'm a native Spanish speaker but I don't know if I'd be qualified to make a translation into "neutral Spanish" because I have no idea of which words are neutral and which aren't! (I do know some stuff like one shouldn't use "coger" for picking up an object outside Spain, at the risk of ending up in jail, lol).
Well, I think you mean "cojer." I had actually used "coger" in the translation, but that's easy to fix with a simple search and replace.

There's too much information about Neutral Spanish, like on this website:
http://blog-de-traducciones.spanishtranslation.us/
They even have a glossary with neutral words in Spanish. Search "Glosario".

Al-Khwarizmi wrote:
Thu Apr 12, 2018 7:41 am
I wonder if that neutral ideal is worth pursuing or if it would be better in the long run to actually do more than one Spanish translation for different locales.
Good luck with that, there's too much text to make the effort, I think if there's already a localization, people will stick with it. But that's what I think.

Arl wrote:
Thu Apr 12, 2018 5:52 pm
Other issue is what gets translated and what gets not. I saw that Summerset Isle is called Isla de Estivalia, while the eponymous Daggerfall is not called Caida de Daga or something like that. By that principle we can also translate Skyrim and Morrowind to something like Borde del Cielo and Viento de la Mañana respectively.
Let me say that "Daggerfall" is "Salto de la Daga", according to the official translation (Skyrim). My idea is also to translate the names of locations, because there are too many english names, which can be easily translated, like "Coven on the Bluff".
We can use the official translations as much as we can and translate the others.

pd: Privateer's Hold = Puesto de los corsarios (official translation)
Currently translating Daggerfall into Spanish.

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Deepfighter
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Re: Spanish Translation

Post by Deepfighter » Fri Apr 13, 2018 6:45 am

Al-Khwarizmi wrote:
Thu Apr 12, 2018 7:41 am
I wonder if that neutral ideal is worth pursuing or if it would be better in the long run to actually do more than one Spanish translation for different locales.
That would be to much afford. You should really, as delvisomanda statement implies, focus on one basic Spanish translation. From there it will be a lot easier for someone to modify it, e.g. to add another dialect.

I am wondering, in which Spanish dialect are the official Elder Scrolls translations? I know Skyrim was translated by translators from Spain (as well as the beta-testers were all from Spain, which I know personally, since I worked on the German Skyrim translation in the same room with them :D ), so I suppose they use the Spanish language which is used in Europe(?). How was it done in Morrowind and Oblivion? Maybe this can be used as an example for continuation reasons?
Head of the German Daggerfall translation - www.daggerfalldeutsch.de
and German translator for The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim and Lore-Expert for The Elder Scrolls: Online

Al-Khwarizmi
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Re: Spanish Translation

Post by Al-Khwarizmi » Fri Apr 13, 2018 7:19 am

Deepfighter wrote:
Fri Apr 13, 2018 6:45 am
That would be to much afford. You should really, as delvisomanda statement implies, focus on one basic Spanish translation. From there it will be a lot easier for someone to modify it, e.g. to add another dialect.
I was not trying to suggest that different translations should be done from the get go, which would increase the chances of the project going unfinished. It makes sense to focus on one first, and then other localizations can be added later (and should be much easier, as translating between varieties of Spanish is easier than translating from English). I was just saying that I think it's worth planning to have at least two versions in the long run, as this will make a larger share of users happy.
Deepfighter wrote:
Fri Apr 13, 2018 6:45 am
I am wondering, in which spanish dialect are the official Elder Scrolls translations? I know Skyrim was translated by translators from Spain (as I know them personally, when we worked on the German Skyrim translation), but how was it done in Morrowind and Oblivion? Maybe you can continue their style?
Both Skyrim and Oblivion are in Spanish from Spain (voices and text in the case of Skyrim, only subtitles in the case of Oblivion). I think Morrowind wasn't officially translated to Spanish, there is only translation via mod. Anyway I don't think this should necessarily condition the current translation, that Latin American users didn't enjoy a Latin American translation of the official games doesn't mean that they shouldn't get a fan translation of Daggerfall.
delvisomanda wrote:Well, I think you mean "cojer." I had actually used "coger" in the translation, but that's easy to fix with a simple search and replace.
No, I mean "coger" with a "g" (it doesn't exist with a "j" anywhere as far as I know?) I refer to the fact that in Spanish from Spain it's the most commonly used word for "to take", but e.g. in Argentina it refers to sex, so one can get into trouble by casually using it.
delvisomanda wrote:As an example, one of the most alienating things in spanish Dungeons and Dragons was the fact that the toponimical names were translated. I disliked it because I am a defender of the original proper names, although that names being translated to spanish make sense and are very descriptive.
The reason it was done in that way, I guess, is because that names were not elf or fantasy languages, but english names (Neverwinter etc...) Considering that, I would have keep them untouched because, in fact, Dungeons and Dragons was originaly an anglosaxon product.
This is a tough one.

On the one hand, from a logical standpoint it makes sense to translate toponyms that are in English. One can imagine that, since sagas like Dungeons and Dragons/TES/LOTR take place in different worlds, they don't actually speak English (it would take a lot of chance to evolve exactly the same language as the Earth, without any contact!) So it makes sense to assume that, when we read those books or videogames in English, what we are getting is actually a translation of the original names (which would be in a language incomprehensible to us) so that we can understand its meaning. For example, maybe The Shire is actually called Ulomodor, but Tolkien renders it as "The Shire" because he wants to convey its meaning (and has to do so in English). From this standpoint, the reasonable thing to do is to translate it ("La Comarca"). Why would we use English to describe in Spanish the name of a place in a fictional world?

On the other hand, translating toponyms from English to Spanish literally often yields names that are incoherent with the actual toponym formation processes that happen in real life, and this makes them sound odd (I know the original English names haven't been subject to natural toponym formation and evolution either, but they are typically written with real English names in mind and with the intention that they sound believable in English). Names like Carrera Blanca, Lucero del Alba, Salto de la Daga or Desembarco del Rey sound quite off, IMO. Sometimes it gets better when the translators apply some artistic license. For example, Neverwinter has been translated as Nuncainvierno and Noyvern, the first is the literal translation but IMO the second sounds better.

Anyway, in the TES saga there is already official material in Spanish so I think it makes sense to follow the toponym translations there, regardless of whether we like them or not.

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Jay_H
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Re: Spanish Translation

Post by Jay_H » Fri Apr 13, 2018 12:46 pm

Al-Khwarizmi wrote:
Fri Apr 13, 2018 7:19 am
Anyway, in the TES saga there is already official material in Spanish so I think it makes sense to follow the toponym translations there, regardless of whether we like them or not.
I agree. No need to reinvent the wheel. We can at least all agree that it's an official version and focus on progress :)
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delvisomanda
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Re: Spanish Translation

Post by delvisomanda » Sun Apr 15, 2018 5:41 pm

Weekly update #6

I edited the first answer on this topic, so when you look at the first page, you will see the progress and the things that need to be completed.

Knightly order and coven quests complete. Thanks to Gudadantza the progress is improving.

Spoiler!
Image

- 93 textures translated. Some textures, have upscaling problems, I'm trying to solve this problem before I upload them. (not much progress on this right now)

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Reminder for interested people, if you want to help with the translation, just send me a private message.
Currently translating Daggerfall into Spanish.

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delvisomanda
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Re: Spanish Translation

Post by delvisomanda » Sun Apr 22, 2018 5:52 pm

Weekly update #7

I have some good news and some bad news.

The good news: We have surpassed 50% of translated quests!!!

The bad news: It's very likely that the translation won't progress too much these next 2 weeks, because I have to look for a new rental, move and change all the services, so I won't have too much time.
I think Gudadantza will keep translating quests but I won't be able to update how the project is going or maybe I will, that I don't know.



Spoiler!
Image

- 106 of 120 textures translated. (88.33 % completed)


Reminder for interested people, if you want to help with the translation, just send me a private message.
Currently translating Daggerfall into Spanish.

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delvisomanda
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Re: Spanish Translation

Post by delvisomanda » Sun Apr 29, 2018 8:58 pm

Weekly update #8

I had a hell of a week, but progress continues to be made, thanks to Gudadantza the quests are still being translated. For my part, I finished translating all the textures, so that's an important thing.


Spoiler!
Image

- 120 of 120 textures translated. (100% completed)!!!


Reminder for interested people, if you want to help with the translation, just send me a private message.
Currently translating Daggerfall into Spanish.

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