Daggerfall Mechanics thread: Volunteers welcome

Discuss Daggerfall Unity and Daggerfall Tools for Unity.
User avatar
Interkarma
Posts: 3500
Joined: Sun Mar 22, 2015 1:51 am

Re: Daggerfall Mechanics thread: Volunteers welcome

Post by Interkarma » Tue Apr 24, 2018 11:58 am

I'm working on spell and gold cost formulas now thanks to the work of everyone in this thread. Thank you all!

User avatar
Interkarma
Posts: 3500
Joined: Sun Mar 22, 2015 1:51 am

Re: Daggerfall Mechanics thread: Volunteers welcome

Post by Interkarma » Thu Apr 26, 2018 2:15 am

I know some time has passed, but I'm wondering if the folks involved with creating spell costs spreadsheet would be able to help me isolate OffsetGold, A, B, and Factor costs for a few effects missing from the spreadsheet? For example, Continuous Damage Fatigue, Health, and SpellPoint effects aren't present on latest version of spreadsheet I can find (version 8).

I'm not entirely sure how you derived these values for the available effects - whether this was does through trial and error or through some mathematical process. I can fudge this for now, but I'd love to have these effects on par with classic as well.

Thanks again for all your work on those spell cost formulas. I've put most of this together in the game within a couple of days thanks to having such excellent starting information available. Cheers. :)

ifkopifko
Posts: 118
Joined: Thu Apr 02, 2015 9:03 am

Re: Daggerfall Mechanics thread: Volunteers welcome

Post by ifkopifko » Thu Apr 26, 2018 6:40 am

That is correct, the last version is number 8 (can be found on page 6 of this discussion).

My contribution of finding those parameters was more or less trial and error, but with the "helping columns" it was not that difficcult once you get the hang of it. The tedious work of writing down the raw values from vanilla Daggerfall was by Jay_H. :)
I am available to do it, and will try to do it this evening. I am not sure however, whether I need some special character versed in magic to obtain those raw values, so if someone beats me to it and provides these (or does the complete job), I'm ok with that. :D

User avatar
Interkarma
Posts: 3500
Joined: Sun Mar 22, 2015 1:51 am

Re: Daggerfall Mechanics thread: Volunteers welcome

Post by Interkarma » Thu Apr 26, 2018 8:12 am

Thank you for the assistance ifkopifko! I made a little progress tweaking the numbers, but haven't quite gotten the hang of it yet. Any help would be most welcome. :)

I've attached the save file I'm using for testing costs - a Breton mage called Mister50 with 50 in all spell skills. Save was taken right in front of a spellmaker NPC so you should be able to just load and start crafting.
Attachments
SAVE4.zip
(42.08 KiB) Downloaded 11 times

ifkopifko
Posts: 118
Joined: Thu Apr 02, 2015 9:03 am

Re: Daggerfall Mechanics thread: Volunteers welcome

Post by ifkopifko » Thu Apr 26, 2018 5:07 pm

For some reason I am unable to load that save, dosbox seems to freeze when I try to do it. I am using Daggerfallsetup, but I think I have installed some recommended patches. Will try to reinstall it or something... EDIT- OK fixed now.

Anyways, I have tried to look into the matter of spellmaking and found out some things...

1. I have lost the hang of it. :D No matter, It just needs more time.
2. I did not know that "Duration", "Chance" and "Magnitude" can be combined in spells so the formulas I have provided before are not quite correct. Those three parts have to be added together. If you did not already solve this puzzle I will be happy to provide the corrected spreeadsheet in the near future.
3. I can make it so (at least I think it will work) that the formula will become universal for all spell effects if it is prefferable.
4. Did you already tackle the different ranges of spells, like "caster", "touch", "target at distance"...? Seems like it just mulitplies the gold and magicka costs by some constant number... will probably need to investigate further.

5. I fear it will take no little time and I am possitive I will not be able to work on it during the upcomming weekend.

User avatar
Jay_H
Posts: 1599
Joined: Tue Aug 25, 2015 1:54 am

Re: Daggerfall Mechanics thread: Volunteers welcome

Post by Jay_H » Thu Apr 26, 2018 9:28 pm

#4 is handled on page 1 of this topic:
Spell cost calculation [per effect] in magicka and gold (rounded down)
Self: 1x
By Touch: 1x
Ranged: 1.5x
Area Around Caster: 2x
Area At Range: 2.5x
Try over 90 all-new quests in the first Daggerfall Unity Quest Pack.

User avatar
Interkarma
Posts: 3500
Joined: Sun Mar 22, 2015 1:51 am

Re: Daggerfall Mechanics thread: Volunteers welcome

Post by Interkarma » Thu Apr 26, 2018 9:40 pm

ifkopifko wrote:
Thu Apr 26, 2018 5:07 pm
1. I have lost the hang of it. :D No matter, It just needs more time.
That's OK! Thank you and please take your time. I can just feed in "close enough" fudge numbers for those effects for now. I'm going to expire all version 1 spells before 0.5 stable anyway.
ifkopifko wrote:
Thu Apr 26, 2018 5:07 pm
2. I did not know that "Duration", "Chance" and "Magnitude" can be combined in spells so the formulas I have provided before are not quite correct. Those three parts have to be added together. If you did not already solve this puzzle I will be happy to provide the corrected spreeadsheet in the near future.
I managed to solve how components cost are combined on my end with your existing formulas. But if you're feeling up to it, refinements are always welcome. Otherwise, I'm pretty happy with where things are right now and can reliably get the correct costs with your formulas for any spell build - provided I have the correct input parameters for OffsetGold, A, B, and Factor for each component of the effect.
ifkopifko wrote:
Thu Apr 26, 2018 5:07 pm
3. I can make it so (at least I think it will work) that the formula will become universal for all spell effects if it is prefferable.
Only if you have time and the inclination. I was only after input params for a few missing effects, and even that only when you have time to help. :)

ifkopifko
Posts: 118
Joined: Thu Apr 02, 2015 9:03 am

Re: Daggerfall Mechanics thread: Volunteers welcome

Post by ifkopifko » Fri Apr 27, 2018 7:57 am

Thanks Jay_H for pointing that out, I must have forgotten about it.

So I have managed to solve the three required spell effects (in the style I have made the previous ones). At last I recalled the manner in which to determine those values. :D

Remaking the spreadsheets and unifying the formula will have to wait. But I am not sure it will simplify things at all. If what you have now works perfectly, I quess it's better to leave it alone. :D Will think about it some more.
Attachments
Spells edited 10.zip
(181.04 KiB) Downloaded 13 times

User avatar
Jay_H
Posts: 1599
Joined: Tue Aug 25, 2015 1:54 am

Re: Daggerfall Mechanics thread: Volunteers welcome

Post by Jay_H » Fri Apr 27, 2018 12:43 pm

Yeah! You rock :) I was amazed at how quickly you and everyone else parsed everything two years ago. I'm glad the offset mystery could come to light for good now :D
Try over 90 all-new quests in the first Daggerfall Unity Quest Pack.

User avatar
Interkarma
Posts: 3500
Joined: Sun Mar 22, 2015 1:51 am

Re: Daggerfall Mechanics thread: Volunteers welcome

Post by Interkarma » Fri Apr 27, 2018 12:58 pm

Legend! Thank you ifkopifko! :)

Post Reply