guards keep chasing me

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jayhova
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guards keep chasing me

Post by jayhova » Thu May 30, 2019 1:12 pm

So I did that thing where I hit the sleep button instead of the loiter button. Then I thought 'no problem, I'll just go to another province and wait this out'. To my surprise I was being chased by guards there. How far do I need to run in order not to be hounded by guards on suspicion of vagrancy?
Remember always 'What would Julian Do?'.
Windows 10 Pro 64 bit. DFU Ver. Alpha 0.10.7

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King of Worms
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Re: guards keep chasing me

Post by King of Worms » Thu May 30, 2019 3:41 pm

Btw this thing about accidentaly hitting rest instead of loiter in the cities... is a bit ridiculous.
Nobody wants to commit this crime.
If there was a prompt "do u want to really commit this crime?" Yes/No I wonder how many ppl would click yes?

But than, if this is somehow removed, the whole point of loitering would be lost...

Not sure what to do with this..

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jayhova
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Re: guards keep chasing me

Post by jayhova » Thu May 30, 2019 6:40 pm

I was under the impression that committing this crime was only local. That if you left after some time the law enforcement would stop chasing you. It seems very strange that the guards would chase you outside of the city of the alleged offence let alone outside the provence.
Remember always 'What would Julian Do?'.
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mikeprichard
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Re: guards keep chasing me

Post by mikeprichard » Thu May 30, 2019 10:44 pm

Yeah, this whole rest vs. loiter choice leading to "accidental" criminal charges has been discussed before, and is another example of poor UI design on classic Daggerfall's part. Would love to at least see a prompt like KoW suggested when you click one of the two rest options in a city, but BEFORE you actually rest. (E.g. "Resting here will be considered a crime. Still rest? Y/N") Pretty silly for the "It is illegal to camp in or near a city." message to only pop up after you've, uh, camped in or near a city. By then, you've already got a free one-way ticket to HALTsville. Please? :)

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jayhova
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Re: guards keep chasing me

Post by jayhova » Fri May 31, 2019 10:12 pm

Can anyone tell me if I am wrong about this everyone in the Illiac bay knows you might be a vagrant thing? If you leave Daggerfall and travel to Sentinel how can you even be charged with a crime you did not commit there?

My thought on the sleep/loiter thing is that when in a city the sleep buttons should be red. It would also be nice if you are hidden you can get away with it.
Remember always 'What would Julian Do?'.
Windows 10 Pro 64 bit. DFU Ver. Alpha 0.10.7

BansheeXYZ
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Re: guards keep chasing me

Post by BansheeXYZ » Sat Jun 01, 2019 4:29 am

mikeprichard wrote:
Thu May 30, 2019 10:44 pm
Yeah, this whole rest vs. loiter choice leading to "accidental" criminal charges has been discussed before, and is another example of poor UI design on classic Daggerfall's part.
Yep. Though I wouldn't say it's just the ui. You can tell that they were really reaching to expand the crime system here. I find it amusing that:

-guards never let you off with a warning, especially when it's an accidental click or new player that's the culprit
-there's a 100% chance of getting caught and 0% chance of actually getting any rest in. At least let the player heal if he's going to take a rep hit.
-when you sleep for an hour due to stamina exhaustion, isn't that vagrancy too? Not according to daggerfall logic.
-the number of guards that respond to vagrancy is the same as murder. I see the daggerfall guards have priorities.

meritamas
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Re: guards keep chasing me

Post by meritamas » Sat Jun 01, 2019 7:16 am

BansheeXYZ wrote:
Sat Jun 01, 2019 4:29 am
mikeprichard wrote:
Thu May 30, 2019 10:44 pm
Yeah, this whole rest vs. loiter choice leading to "accidental" criminal charges has been discussed before, and is another example of poor UI design on classic Daggerfall's part.
Yep. Though I wouldn't say it's just the ui. You can tell that they were really reaching to expand the crime system here. I find it amusing that:

-guards never let you off with a warning, especially when it's an accidental click or new player that's the culprit
-there's a 100% chance of getting caught and 0% chance of actually getting any rest in. At least let the player heal if he's going to take a rep hit.
-when you sleep for an hour due to stamina exhaustion, isn't that vagrancy too? Not according to daggerfall logic.
-the number of guards that respond to vagrancy is the same as murder. I see the daggerfall guards have priorities.
jayhova wrote:
Fri May 31, 2019 10:12 pm
Can anyone tell me if I am wrong about this everyone in the Illiac bay knows you might be a vagrant thing? If you leave Daggerfall and travel to Sentinel how can you even be charged with a crime you did not commit there?

My thought on the sleep/loiter thing is that when in a city the sleep buttons should be red. It would also be nice if you are hidden you can get away with it.
Agree. Turning the buttons red but still functional with no additional warning would be a subtle solution I find very RP-friendly. In this other thread, the idea of simulating the environment while the PC is resting/loitering is raised. With the environment simulated, it would be easy to determine if you get caught, too. The mechanic could be the same as for any other crime: if any guards come by during your rest and actually see you resting, you are caught, otherwise, you got away with it.
At this point, I aim to improve DFU by formulating ideas and working out some details of how things could work better.

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mikeprichard
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Re: guards keep chasing me

Post by mikeprichard » Sat Jun 01, 2019 8:38 am

Sure, giving the two rest buttons a red background whenever using them would result in a crime would also work.

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jayhova
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Re: guards keep chasing me

Post by jayhova » Sat Jun 01, 2019 3:59 pm

So a few mod ideas here:
  • Indicate when resting is a crime by changing the color of the rest button to reddish
  • Create a mechanism to simulate realistic law avoidance i.e. guards do now magically know you have committed a crime until they see yo doing it.
  • Modify law enforcement to reasonable levels.
Can any of you mod creators assign a difficulty rating to these ideas?


Quite frankly, IMHO, having buttons that bring to attention the crime of vagrancy should be in the primary game and on by default.
Rest in City.jpg
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Remember always 'What would Julian Do?'.
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Hazelnut
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Re: guards keep chasing me

Post by Hazelnut » Sat Jun 01, 2019 4:22 pm

I originally had a message box that popped up if you tried to sleep in a city rather than allowing it and then HALT, HALT! It was changed to match classic by another dev, and I'm fine with that. You have to pay attention in daggerfall, and you can do stuff that leads to bad things... it's all part of the old school charm.

Not sure guards should still be chasing you when you flee the city though, that sounds wrong. Have you checked classic behaviour?

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