0.10.4 Unhelpful and unfriendly NPCs [RESOLVED]

Bug topics that have been resolved.
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Jay_H
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Re: NPC's wont tell me anything

Post by Jay_H » Fri Aug 16, 2019 12:53 pm

That appears to be working properly. Asking about people is intended to be far more difficult than buildings: viewtopic.php?f=4&t=2145&start=20#p25430
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pango
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Re: NPC's wont tell me anything

Post by pango » Fri Aug 16, 2019 1:19 pm

Thanks!

But should it be harder as in people are more likely to tell you to f... off or as in people are more likely to not know? I don't know how the TalkManager works, but I feel that it could be a real issue
When a measure becomes a target, it ceases to be a good measure.
-- Charles Goodhart

BansheeXYZ
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Re: NPC's wont tell me anything

Post by BansheeXYZ » Fri Aug 16, 2019 3:14 pm

I think either DFU is missing something still, or it fixed a bug in classic that is adversely affecting gameplay.

Just a guess: Is it possible that classic NPCs spawn with a range of reaction bonuses, which offsets the -10 penalty and keeps it positive for chars with 0 starting rep? That might explain why in DFU, the -10 adjustment is causing the penalties themselves to almost always be the reaction for 0 rep players. I also noticed that NPCs keep their reaction for this question.

Classic: 41 PER and 0 commoner rep

negative fail (x3)
positive fail (x2)
positive success (x8)

DFU: 41 PER and 0 commoner rep

negative fail (x7)


Something else worth noting about classic: when I ask for directions to a store (not a quest person), I can get different reactions from the same person if I close the talk window and ask again. See: 30second mark, I get a negative fail in a sea of positive successes



btw, here's the saves in case you want to verify my results
dfuSAVE7.zip
(187.18 KiB) Downloaded 119 times
classicSAVE4.zip
(44.85 KiB) Downloaded 95 times

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Interkarma
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Re: NPC's wont tell me anything

Post by Interkarma » Fri Aug 16, 2019 8:56 pm

Thanks for all the details and feedback everyone! Definitely still some tuning needed here.

Ferital is currently the one most involved with this system now. He's taking a short break, but I'm sure he'll take a look when he returns.

I think we have enough info now to move this into bug reports for tracking.

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Ferital
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Re: 0.10.4 Unhelpful and unfriendly NPCs

Post by Ferital » Wed Aug 28, 2019 7:56 am

Just to mention this should be fixed in next DFU version. To quote what I said on the PR:
This restores random seed based on current NPC guid so each NPC in the same town will now react differently as this was already the case before PR #1370.

I also lowered the difficulty level required to get a successful answer when asking for people location with low personality characters, balancing this change by also lowering the bonus given to find a location (+5 instead of +10). Still, it's much more difficult than classic to find people, where we nearly always get a successful answer even with a very low personality, because of an incorrectly applied modifier (classic seems to always apply +10, regardless of the kind of question).

As with my previous PR #1370, Streetwise and Etiquette are more useful than in classic where one would always use Normal tone since it almost always gives better results. As an example, in DFU, I managed to get a positive answer from the same NPC by switching from Normal to Blunt tone (NPC was a commoner, for a Noble I would have used Etiquette of course).

And as requested on the forums (viewtopic.php?f=5&t=2404), tone now remains checked as it was during the last talk session.

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Interkarma
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Re: 0.10.4 Unhelpful and unfriendly NPCs

Post by Interkarma » Wed Aug 28, 2019 8:04 am

I have merged Ferital's changes and this problem seems resolved.

If NPCs are unhelpful and hostile at this point, I think it's legitimately going to be from poor reputation or personality. That is something for the player to work-around or roleplay as preferred.

Closing this one.

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