0.10.4: Witch summons vary during the day

Curated user bug reports with enough information to reproduce issue. Moderators will move topics here from Help & Support once a bug is confirmed and enough information has been provided.
Post Reply
User avatar
Jay_H
Posts: 2827
Joined: Tue Aug 25, 2015 1:54 am

0.10.4: Witch summons vary during the day

Post by Jay_H » Tue Sep 03, 2019 7:59 pm

Expected behavior:

Witches in classic would summon one fixed daedra per day.

Current DFU behavior:

The daedra to be summoned varies on each prompt. It is possible to cycle through and get all daedric princes in one day.

Save provided in front of Daggerfall witch.
Attachments
SAVE39.zip
(136.47 KiB) Downloaded 2 times
ON HIATUS. Will be difficult to find.
Come join the Unofficial Daggerfall Unity Discord.
See the Daggerfall Unity Wiki on the UESP.

User avatar
Hazelnut
Posts: 1566
Joined: Sat Aug 26, 2017 2:46 pm
Contact:

Re: 0.10.4: Witch summons vary during the day

Post by Hazelnut » Tue Sep 03, 2019 8:13 pm

Citation needed for the expected behaviour please Jay! :D

Actually reading UESP a bit closer it does seems you're right on this one. Is it confirmed with classic?

Also, does anyone really care enough about this? I'll need to add some data to the savefile to track this and prevent instant re-rolling via save scumming. Players can easily just rest 24 hours to achieve the same effect, so it sort of seems like a hassle for no real gameplay benefit. It could be that I'm just feeling lazy, so maybe I could be persuaded. :lol:

User avatar
Jay_H
Posts: 2827
Joined: Tue Aug 25, 2015 1:54 am

Re: 0.10.4: Witch summons vary during the day

Post by Jay_H » Tue Sep 03, 2019 8:25 pm

The recording quality is a bit poor but I can show it:



I would expect that classic uses some kind of calendar to determine each day, but I don't know if that exists.
ON HIATUS. Will be difficult to find.
Come join the Unofficial Daggerfall Unity Discord.
See the Daggerfall Unity Wiki on the UESP.

User avatar
Hazelnut
Posts: 1566
Joined: Sat Aug 26, 2017 2:46 pm
Contact:

Re: 0.10.4: Witch summons vary during the day

Post by Hazelnut » Tue Sep 03, 2019 8:40 pm

And what about save scumming?

User avatar
Jay_H
Posts: 2827
Joined: Tue Aug 25, 2015 1:54 am

Re: 0.10.4: Witch summons vary during the day

Post by Jay_H » Tue Sep 03, 2019 11:20 pm

I'm not sure I understand the question about save scumming.

The daedric quests are intended to be endgame/postgame material, with an exorbitant gold cost and a location very few players find on their own. For most players, having 2 or 3 daedric artifacts is all the achievement they'll ever get for a character. Their scarcity contributes to their value -- in gameplay terms they're actually not stunningly powerful (you can certainly enchant something better than many of them), but it's the fact that they're so hard to get that attracts people to them.

This differs from our discussions on limiting quests per day for that reason. If a guild offers, say, 6 jobs per day, you can come back the next day and see 6 more and it's extremely likely you'll find something you prefer. In that case, the wait was merely a speed bump.

In contrast, let's say you wanted to get the Masque of Clavicus Vile. You arrive at the coven and ask what daedra is appearing that day, and it's Vaernima. You wait 24 hours and get Hermaeus Mora. You wait 24 more and get Meridia. You wait 24 more and get Azura. Another, it's Peryite. Another, it's Nocturnal, Another, it's Hermaeus Mora again. All this happens while monsters spawn around you, and it's actually not apparent that you might get to see Clavicus Vile this month at all.

On the other hand, you could rank up in the Mages Guild/temple enough to use their guaranteed summoning service. You'll have to wait until the first day of the Morning Star month to summon Clavicus Vile, but at least it's guaranteed.

This rarity to the daedric artifacts makes them more appealing, not less. I believe something of value will be lost if people come to say, "Daggerfall Unity is awesome but it's way too easy to get all the artifacts now."
ON HIATUS. Will be difficult to find.
Come join the Unofficial Daggerfall Unity Discord.
See the Daggerfall Unity Wiki on the UESP.

User avatar
Hazelnut
Posts: 1566
Joined: Sat Aug 26, 2017 2:46 pm
Contact:

Re: 0.10.4: Witch summons vary during the day

Post by Hazelnut » Tue Sep 03, 2019 11:32 pm

I mean if you try, save, reload and try again can you get a different daedra summoning without waiting a day?

User avatar
Jay_H
Posts: 2827
Joined: Tue Aug 25, 2015 1:54 am

Re: 0.10.4: Witch summons vary during the day

Post by Jay_H » Tue Sep 03, 2019 11:36 pm

I just tried it with that same character, and it gave me Clavicus Vile four times on the 25th of Last Seed. Looks like that's fixed too.
ON HIATUS. Will be difficult to find.
Come join the Unofficial Daggerfall Unity Discord.
See the Daggerfall Unity Wiki on the UESP.

NoobioDF
Posts: 52
Joined: Sat Jun 22, 2019 4:03 am

Re: 0.10.4: Witch summons vary during the day

Post by NoobioDF » Wed Sep 18, 2019 4:54 pm

Just in case you were still wondering, Jay_H, I do recall there was a calendar for the appearances, or at least talk of such way back when Daggerfall came out.

So the days did matter as to who you could summon. Certain holidays also were supposed to boost certain chances for appearances, or the power to them, (some sort of influence) etc. I think it was based on the moons to the planet. I never actually got to the place you show in order to summon them. But I do recall the various discussions of the feature.

I'm not sure if there was ever released an official guide to the days. I know that days of the week mattered, months mattered, and holidays mattered. There had to be some unofficial guides to this somewhere.

I think it may be that even the official manual does hint at this by going over the basics of the Daggerfall Calendar system, and highlighting the importance of its structure, but without mentioning the actual system. Also Morrowind may mention it also.

Not that my comment here helps much, but you are right about the days were, in the original game, supposed to matter. But as long as you get the same summons each distinct day, I suppose it is fine.

User avatar
Hazelnut
Posts: 1566
Joined: Sat Aug 26, 2017 2:46 pm
Contact:

Re: 0.10.4: Witch summons vary during the day

Post by Hazelnut » Wed Sep 18, 2019 6:10 pm

The days do matter and with guilds etc you do need to get the correct day of the year for the Daedra you want, but Witches summoning is different.

NoobioDF
Posts: 52
Joined: Sat Jun 22, 2019 4:03 am

Re: 0.10.4: Witch summons vary during the day

Post by NoobioDF » Wed Sep 18, 2019 11:36 pm

@ Hazelnut

Thanks for the info. For Daggerfall, I mostly go by memory, instead of checking on UESP.net first, which is also sometimes down occasionally, unlike I do for the other ES games. I don't know why that is, that I tend not to do it for Daggerfall, odd.

Glad I wasn't totally wrong. Again, thanks for the info.

Post Reply